Should I buy this house? Victorian end terrace with a damp or no damp question

A0911

FTB having a very stressful time deciding whether to go ahead with purchasing a Victorian back-to-back end terrace.

Building survey said there was damp to the ground floor based on high meter readings. Surveyor said he could smell it, but I couldn't, and there are no visible internal signs of damp, though the lounge walls have been dry lined. The house has been vacant all winter. There is some badly eroded and spalling stonework on the outside, which has been pointed with cement. Survey advises that it needs repointing with lime, extra air bricks installing in the cellar, a drainage channel installed on the patio, a bitumen paint removing from the gable end, and new coping stones on the roof to make sure there isn't water running down the walls. Quoted costs for all this in the region of £12k.

Then an independent damp and timber surveyor came and said there were no damp issues internally and it's fine - based off exactly the same damp meter readings as the building surveyor. She said the spalling, flaking stonework on the outside was 'no big deal' and the cement pointing was 'doing the house no harm'.

Then the structural engineer and builder I got out for other issues both told me the house needs repointing in lime ASAP.

I'm so confused about how or even whether to proceed. What is worrying me is that all of this - the cement pointing, bitumen paint, dry lining - seems to have been done in the first place to remedy issues with damp. So assuming I do do all of this suggested work in the first survey, who is to say I won't still have damp? I don't have limitless money to pour into this, and even the recommended £12k works are a stretch.

Grateful for any thoughts.

jonnydeppiwish!

Did you pay for the independent damp specialist? Did the surveyor have the usual cover their backside wording in their report?

Drainage channel seems like a good idea of the patio is up the the house wall - can you see a damp course? I think it might be slate in Victorian buildings. Has it been empty for a period?

tacpot12

It's a tough one. The fact that the house has been vacant all winter will not have helped. It will not have been heated so well, and there will have been less air movement. The house probably does smell damp (to the experienced nose) and probably does have some damp, but I would be inclined to think that this will go when the house is occupied and aired well. I used to own a Victorian Mid-terrace that I bought with with bad damp. I installed a chemical damp proof course, and had the walls replastered in waterproof concrete (tanked) to a height of 1 meter, except in the kitchen where the wall was painted with bitument paint already, and this was dry-lined. 

This cured the damp problems, but I should, on reflection, have also had the chimney capped. Water was getting in during periods of heavy rain.

You haven''t mentioned whether any sort of damp proof course has been installed in the walls. If there is nothing installed, you would need to add the cost of this to your other remediations. I'm surprised none of the other professionals mentioned it, so it is perhaps clear that there is a chemical or mechanical damp proof course already installed.

The lime repointing does need doing. I'm inclined to think that your idependent damp surveyor was the least knowledgable of the professionals you have had advice from. 

Grizebeck

Yes as they are not big issues so put ya big boy pants on

ProDave

Moving forward into an ere where energy use of properties is becoming a big issue and sooner (or less likely later) all houses are going to have to be upgraded at probably very high cost to reduce energy usage.  Do you really now want to be buying an old cold damp expensive to heat house knowing one day you might have a very large bill to upgrade it?

Or would you rather keep looking for something more modern without all the damp and cold and much lower energy bills and probably not requiring expensive upgrades?

FreeBear

Is this the same one you've posted other questions on ?

Removal of chimney breast and new roof, both without building regs sign-off. Dodgy cement pointing causing the stone blocks to spall. Signs of an injected chemical DPC (and possibly waterproof render/plaster on the inside), and so on.. Oh, and missing a firewall in the loft space.

To be honest, this is starting to sound like a real money pit, and if the current owner has only ever done the absolute minimum of maintenance, there is likely a bunch of work that needs doing. Personally, I'd suggest you look for something else that hasn't been messed around with and doesn't throw up so many red flags. As an FTB, you really don't want to be jumping in at the deep end without a sizeable wad of cash to pay for repairs.

aoleks

victorian houses should NEVER be repointed in cement (no house for that matter), that's correct. whoever told you it's not an issue doesn't know what he's talking about.

A0911

FreeBear said:

Is this the same one you've posted other questions on ?

Removal of chimney breast and new roof, both without building regs sign-off. Dodgy cement pointing causing the stone blocks to spall. Signs of an injected chemical DPC (and possibly waterproof render/plaster on the inside), and so on.. Oh, and missing a firewall in the loft space.

To be honest, this is starting to sound like a real money pit, and if the current owner has only ever done the absolute minimum of maintenance, there is likely a bunch of work that needs doing. Personally, I'd suggest you look for something else that hasn't been messed around with and doesn't throw up so many red flags. As an FTB, you really don't want to be jumping in at the deep end without a sizeable wad of cash to pay for repairs.

It is, FreeBear. Hello! 

I had the chimney breast checked out by the SE, it is supported with steels so happy with that. Roof seems ok too, but as before, no regs. The owner says he had asked the builder to patch up any areas of blown pointing, and what said builder has done is splodged a load of cement in the whole wall. 

I agree with you, my sense is that this is too much to take on. The main concern is that the stuff I do know about is already so much - what is awaiting when I get in there and uncover 100 years of bodge jobs?

So far I know about, big jobs and small:
Roof repairs (flashings, ridge tiles, chimney repointing)
Leaking guttering
Small leak to main water pipe in cellar

One of bath taps not working at all, no idea why
Damp to ground floor
Bitumen paint needs removing from gable end
Old chimney breast removal, no regs
Replacement roof, no regs
New copings needed on roof, insufficient overhang (so water running down walls)
Extra airbricks needed in cellar
Drainage channel needs creating between patio and house
Ground floor timbers need paint stripping and treating with preservative
Whole house needs repointing in lime
Party firewall needs installing in roof
New loft hatch needs installing to do the firewall

Problem with these stone terraces is they've often been rented out, so no-one has any interest in doing the work to a decent, lasting standard. I spoke to a couple of local guys who live in rented ones last night. One, a former builder, said "honestly you couldn't give me one of these houses for free". Another said the damp was relentless. Pretty damning.

When I've finished the buying process I'll have £7k left. I can't afford this house, can I? 

A0911

aoleks said:

victorian houses should NEVER be repointed in cement (no house for that matter), that's correct. whoever told you it's not an issue doesn't know what he's talking about.

Thanks aoleks. Given a simple Google will tell you this, I am concerned about relying on anything else this damp and timber surveyor has said. 

A0911

jonnydeppiwish! said:

Did you pay for the independent damp specialist? Did the surveyor have the usual cover their backside wording in their report?

Drainage channel seems like a good idea of the patio is up the the house wall - can you see a damp course? I think it might be slate in Victorian buildings. Has it been empty for a period?

I did pay for the damp specialist, but they seem to have been not great. I spoke to the original surveyor on the phone ahead of his report, and he used the words "landlord bodge job". 

I can't see a damp course, and agree the drainage channel would be a good idea. It has been empty all winter.

ProDave

A0911 said:

FreeBear said:

Is this the same one you've posted other questions on ?

Removal of chimney breast and new roof, both without building regs sign-off. Dodgy cement pointing causing the stone blocks to spall. Signs of an injected chemical DPC (and possibly waterproof render/plaster on the inside), and so on.. Oh, and missing a firewall in the loft space.

To be honest, this is starting to sound like a real money pit, and if the current owner has only ever done the absolute minimum of maintenance, there is likely a bunch of work that needs doing. Personally, I'd suggest you look for something else that hasn't been messed around with and doesn't throw up so many red flags. As an FTB, you really don't want to be jumping in at the deep end without a sizeable wad of cash to pay for repairs.

It is, FreeBear. Hello! 

I had the chimney breast checked out by the SE, it is supported with steels so happy with that. Roof seems ok too, but as before, no regs. The owner says he had asked the builder to patch up any areas of blown pointing, and what said builder has done is splodged a load of cement in the whole wall. 

I agree with you, my sense is that this is too much to take on. The main concern is that the stuff I do know about is already so much - what is awaiting when I get in there and uncover 100 years of bodge jobs?

So far I know about, big jobs and small:
Roof repairs (flashings, ridge tiles, chimney repointing)
Leaking guttering
Small leak to main water pipe in cellar

One of bath taps not working at all, no idea why
Damp to ground floor
Bitumen paint needs removing from gable end
Old chimney breast removal, no regs
Replacement roof, no regs
New copings needed on roof, insufficient overhang (so water running down walls)
Extra airbricks needed in cellar
Drainage channel needs creating between patio and house
Ground floor timbers need paint stripping and treating with preservative
Whole house needs repointing in lime
Party firewall needs installing in roof
New loft hatch needs installing to do the firewall

Problem with these stone terraces is they've often been rented out, so no-one has any interest in doing the work to a decent, lasting standard. I spoke to a couple of local guys who live in rented ones last night. One, a former builder, said "honestly you couldn't give me one of these houses for free". Another said the damp was relentless. Pretty damning.

When I've finished the buying process I'll have £7k left. I can't afford this house, can I? 

Re my earlier post.

So what is it makes you want to buy this damp money pit that will always be an old cold house?  There must be something fantastic about it to make it worth all the grief.  Or is must be really cheap to reflect it's condition?