Energy Standing Charges

doodling

Hi,

pensionpawn said:

matt_drummer said:

MikeyPGT said:

Standing charges do unfairly impact low users - my gas standing charge is over 90% of my actual spend and for electricity around a third.  To my mind a fairer option would be to add a small percentage to the unit price so that higher users contribute more.  Also the madness of the National Grid (and the energy companies in general) being in private hands needs to be addressed

I pay an electricity standing charge.

I buy virtually no electricity as I have loads of solar panels and batteries.

I am not rich but had the the resources and the home to be able to do this.

If the standing charge was zero and added to unit rates I would contribute nothing to maintaining the network and you would be paying part of my share of the fixed costs.

Does that sound fair to you?

There are lots of people like me.

Moving standing charges onto unit rates will punish those that can least afford it, people in poorly insulated homes, people at home all day like pensioners, sick people who use more.

Your idea is fatally flawed!

I disagree. I also have panels. We both supply energy to the grid and the DNO factor that into their energy balancing calculations. Do I charge the grid a "standing charge" for the "maintenance" of my network? Before you mention the FiT and export tariff they are payments for generation, i.e. removing (most of) my requirement for import from the grid and hence reducing the need for future grid capacity and the export tariff is a (bargain) deemed payment for the amount, in my case around 2.75 Mwhrs pa, of energy I send to the grid for others to use. If my inverter or micro optimisers fail, it's just me picking up the tab to replace them to continue generating energy for myself and the grid.
A considerable proportion of the excessive increase in standing charge is to pay for failed energy companies who should never have been allowed to commence trading (an Ofgem failing), a levy on every consumer in the country to pay for "green" generation (including our FiT payments) projects and to cover the cost of the "smart" meter roll out, many of which simply do do work.
Please, give me a reason why all energy companies should not be mandated to offer at least one zero standing charge tariff. In my view this offers the consumer increased choice and additional competition in the market place.
I would also like to see net metering tariffs enter the market. Why should the unit value of exported micro generator energy be less than the cost of energy imported from the grid. 1 kWhr powers devices in exactly the same way regardless of where it comes from.

I am quite happy for all energy companies to be mandated to offer a zero standing charge option - whether anyone would pay £2000 per unit is a different question....

With respect to net metering, it is a simple fact that generally energy generated from solar panels is worth less than energy generated from other sources, simply because it is usually generated when there is lower demand and plenty of generation available.  Remember that the nice fixed rate that most people pay is an illusion created to make things convenient for the general public.

I have no problem with you being paid the going rate, but don't expect that to be £1000s per MWh, unless your solar panels work in the evening in winter when covered in snow.

gbhxu

Sounds like we need a social tarrif standing charge.

BT can manage to do this, so I don't see why distribution companies can't.

To put it into some context. I pay BT the same amount for line rental for 3 months (and it includes a small amount of calls) that I pay for the electric standing charge in a month.

What was Western Power Distribution (East Midlands), made over £240 million in the year ending March 2022

It is also unfair that I can't get any payment out of National Grid for having an ugly electric pole on my property. Despite it supplying 4 of my neighbors as well as me.

Mstty

gbhxu said:

Sounds like we need a social tarrif standing charge.

BT can manage to do this, so I don't see why distribution companies can't.

To put it into some context. I pay BT the same amount for line rental for 3 months (and it includes a small amount of calls) that I pay for the electric standing charge in a month.

What was Western Power Distribution (East Midlands), made over £240 million in the year ending March 2022

It is also unfair that I can't get any payment out of National Grid for having an ugly electric pole on my property. Despite it supplying 4 of my neighbors as well as me.

I suspect the social tariff is high on Martin Lewis agenda. He has already mooted this a few times.

I don't think this is needed as the prices come down bit suspect that as this notional affordable £2500 price cap has been deemed the benchmark the Government will intervene at this level.

Some estimates show a notional average house at £2000 from July onwards.

What level do you feel a notional social tariff should be set at?

MattMattMattUK

gbhxu said:

Sounds like we need a social tarrif standing charge.

BT can manage to do this, so I don't see why distribution companies can't.

BT charge normal people more to subsidise the "social" tariff. So it means that normal people pay more so others can have cheaper broadband.

gbhxu said:

To put it into some context. I pay BT the same amount for line rental for 3 months (and it includes a small amount of calls) that I pay for the electric standing charge in a month.

I do not see how that is putting anything into context, I spend roughly the same on petrol in a month as I pay in council tax, but the fact that those numbers are similar is irrelevant. 

Apodemus

pensionpawn said:

matt_drummer said:

MikeyPGT said:

Standing charges do unfairly impact low users - my gas standing charge is over 90% of my actual spend and for electricity around a third.  To my mind a fairer option would be to add a small percentage to the unit price so that higher users contribute more.  Also the madness of the National Grid (and the energy companies in general) being in private hands needs to be addressed

I pay an electricity standing charge.

I buy virtually no electricity as I have loads of solar panels and batteries.

I am not rich but had the the resources and the home to be able to do this.

If the standing charge was zero and added to unit rates I would contribute nothing to maintaining the network and you would be paying part of my share of the fixed costs.

Does that sound fair to you?

There are lots of people like me.

Moving standing charges onto unit rates will punish those that can least afford it, people in poorly insulated homes, people at home all day like pensioners, sick people who use more.

Your idea is fatally flawed!

I disagree. I also have panels. We both supply energy to the grid and the DNO factor that into their energy balancing calculations. Do I charge the grid a "standing charge" for the "maintenance" of my network? Before you mention the FiT and export tariff they are payments for generation, i.e. removing (most of) my requirement for import from the grid and hence reducing the need for future grid capacity and the export tariff is a (bargain) deemed payment for the amount, in my case around 2.75 Mwhrs pa, of energy I send to the grid for others to use. If my inverter or micro optimisers fail, it's just me picking up the tab to replace them to continue generating energy for myself and the grid.
A considerable proportion of the excessive increase in standing charge is to pay for failed energy companies who should never have been allowed to commence trading (an Ofgem failing), a levy on every consumer in the country to pay for "green" generation (including our FiT payments) projects and to cover the cost of the "smart" meter roll out, many of which simply do do work.
Please, give me a reason why all energy companies should not be mandated to offer at least one zero standing charge tariff. In my view this offers the consumer increased choice and additional competition in the market place.
I would also like to see net metering tariffs enter the market. Why should the unit value of exported micro generator energy be less than the cost of energy imported from the grid. 1 kWhr powers devices in exactly the same way regardless of where it comes from.

Of course, this could also be turned around to ask why,  as a "bloated fat-cat energy producer", you shouldn't face a wind-fall tax or pay an extra standing charge so that your energy production can be routed to the users...?   

matt_drummer

Yes, what is your tax rate on the income from the electricity you sell?

Mine is zero fortunately!

gbhxu

MattMattMattUK said:

gbhxu said:

Sounds like we need a social tarrif standing charge.

BT can manage to do this, so I don't see why distribution companies can't.

BT charge normal people more to subsidise the "social" tariff. So it means that normal people pay more so others can have cheaper broadband.

gbhxu said:

To put it into some context. I pay BT the same amount for line rental for 3 months (and it includes a small amount of calls) that I pay for the electric standing charge in a month.

I do not see how that is putting anything into context, I spend roughly the same on petrol in a month as I pay in council tax, but the fact that those numbers are similar is irrelevant. 

I'm basing it on having 1(one) phone cable into my home and 1(one) electric cable into my home

MattMattMattUK

pensionpawn said:

matt_drummer said:

MikeyPGT said:

Standing charges do unfairly impact low users - my gas standing charge is over 90% of my actual spend and for electricity around a third.  To my mind a fairer option would be to add a small percentage to the unit price so that higher users contribute more.  Also the madness of the National Grid (and the energy companies in general) being in private hands needs to be addressed

I pay an electricity standing charge.

I buy virtually no electricity as I have loads of solar panels and batteries.

I am not rich but had the the resources and the home to be able to do this.

If the standing charge was zero and added to unit rates I would contribute nothing to maintaining the network and you would be paying part of my share of the fixed costs.

Does that sound fair to you?

There are lots of people like me.

Moving standing charges onto unit rates will punish those that can least afford it, people in poorly insulated homes, people at home all day like pensioners, sick people who use more.

Your idea is fatally flawed!

I disagree. I also have panels. We both supply energy to the grid and the DNO factor that into their energy balancing calculations. Do I charge the grid a "standing charge" for the "maintenance" of my network? Before you mention the FiT and export tariff they are payments for generation,.....

You do not maintain a network and they are still provide a a network connection to you so that the energy you are paid to generate can be distributed.

pensionpawn said:

If my inverter or micro optimisers fail, it's just me picking up the tab to replace them to continue generating energy for myself and the grid.

You are paid for the energy you export and those costs would fall under generation costs not network costs, just as a gas fired power station or commercial solar farm is paid for it's energy exported, but not a "network" cost.

pensionpawn said:

Please, give me a reason why all energy companies should not be mandated to offer at least one zero standing charge tariff. In my view this offers the consumer increased choice and additional competition in the market place.

Zero standing charge tariffs would involve one group of customers subsidising another group.

pensionpawn said:

I would also like to see net metering tariffs enter the market. Why should the unit value of exported micro generator energy be less than the cost of energy imported from the grid. 1 kWhr powers devices in exactly the same way regardless of where it comes from.

Of course you would because you would personally benefit. The reason exported kWh are not paid at imported kWh rated is because imported kWh include other costs, where as exported kWh is paid at roughly the equivalent rate that generators are paid for exporting to the grid. The fact that you do not understand how the grid operates and the associated costs does not mean you should personally get more money.

MattMattMattUK

gbhxu said:

MattMattMattUK said:

gbhxu said:

Sounds like we need a social tarrif standing charge.

BT can manage to do this, so I don't see why distribution companies can't.

BT charge normal people more to subsidise the "social" tariff. So it means that normal people pay more so others can have cheaper broadband.

gbhxu said:

To put it into some context. I pay BT the same amount for line rental for 3 months (and it includes a small amount of calls) that I pay for the electric standing charge in a month.

I do not see how that is putting anything into context, I spend roughly the same on petrol in a month as I pay in council tax, but the fact that those numbers are similar is irrelevant. 

I'm basing it on having 1(one) phone cable into my home and 1(one) electric cable into my home

Phone lines and telecoms are vastly different systems, working on vastly different technology, just because there is nominally one "cable" coming into your home does not make them comparable. 

matt_drummer

I buy any electricity I need to import at 15.89p per Kwh.

I sell what I export at 15.00p per Kwh

Seems like a pretty good deal to me?

I am more than happy to pay a standing charge to pay my fair share of the network costs that enable me to do this.

Anybody with solar panels and battery storage should consider themselves very fortunate, but some people are never happy, they just want more!