Keeping chickens in gardens - is this unreasonable?

Stateofart

So, I would tread carefully - there is nothing you can do about the noise.

Untrue.  The noise if straying into anti-social territory can be deemed a nuisance.  Think it's 5mins noise per hour is deemed a nuisance.  We have just gone through this process with our neighbour's dog barking.  Took a while, but now they are on final warning to stop it otherwise they'll be prosecuted.

marycanary

Stateofart said:

So, I would tread carefully - there is nothing you can do about the noise.

Untrue.  The noise if straying into anti-social territory can be deemed a nuisance.  Think it's 5mins noise per hour is deemed a nuisance.  We have just gone through this process with our neighbour's dog barking.  Took a while, but now they are on final warning to stop it otherwise they'll be prosecuted.

I've already quoted the law on statutory nuisance (SN). In deciding if a SN exists it is all about what is reasonable in a given circumstance, which has to be determined in each case. 5 minutes of noise once an hour may be a statutory nuisance in one situation but not in another. The length of time, location, volume, acoustic environment and time of day all have an impact. 

The council can take action if they deem it to be a SN. It isn't hard, complicated or particularly nuanced. I've taken cases myself and managed teams undertaking this work. However, some councils don't have the resources or will to take action so it's a bit potluck. If your council won't take action you can either,

Complain using the council's complaints procedure and then the Local Government Ombudsman
Take action yourself using the provisions of the Environmental Protection Act 1990

The often quoted Allotment Act expressly does not give anyone the right to create a SN

strawb_shortcake

CurlySue2017 said:

annabanana82 said:

An old neighbour did similar, except they also had a Cockerell too - how we willed a fox to get in their garden. It didn't smell though and being able to nip round the corner for eggs was super handy

Wow

"I wish a fox would kill your hens, but yeah, I'll take your free eggs" !!

You sound like a joy (sarcasm)

They weren't free we paid for the eggs.

Myself and my young children being disturbed almost every morning  between 4 and 5am is really not on, but the neighbours didnt care despite others complaining to them. The eggs were an upside when we'd ran out.
The hens I wished no harm to, at 4am in the morning myself and most my neighbours I'd spoke to there was no love for that Rooster. I'd previously been naive in thinking they crow once, they don't they keep going and going.

However, on reflection being older, wiser and more confident the problem wasn't the Rooster, it was the neighbours and my annoyance should have been directed towards them. 

I think that in the event a fox had have got in, then that wouldn't have put a smile on my face either

doodling

Hi,

marycanary said:

Stateofart said:

So, I would tread carefully - there is nothing you can do about the noise.

Untrue.  The noise if straying into anti-social territory can be deemed a nuisance.  Think it's 5mins noise per hour is deemed a nuisance.  We have just gone through this process with our neighbour's dog barking.  Took a while, but now they are on final warning to stop it otherwise they'll be prosecuted.

I've already quoted the law on statutory nuisance (SN). In deciding if a SN exists it is all about what is reasonable in a given circumstance, which has to be determined in each case. 5 minutes of noise once an hour may be a statutory nuisance in one situation but not in another. The length of time, location, volume, acoustic environment and time of day all have an impact. 

The council can take action if they deem it to be a SN. It isn't hard, complicated or particularly nuanced. I've taken cases myself and managed teams undertaking this work. However, some councils don't have the resources or will to take action so it's a bit potluck. If your council won't take action you can either,

Complain using the council's complaints procedure and then the Local Government Ombudsman
Take action yourself using the provisions of the Environmental Protection Act 1990

The often quoted Allotment Act expressly does not give anyone the right to create a SN

I absolutely agree that the Allotments Act doesn't give anyone the right to create a statutory nuisance but I would suggest that it gives a strong indication that it is reasonable to keep hens (not cockrels) with a consequent reasonable level of noise and odour.

The question that I would suggest would need to be decided in any legal proceedings is therefore not "is the keeping of hens reasonable" but "is the manner of keeping them appropriate to the location"?

Obviously if there is poor hygiene or animal welfare then this is an easy target for any nuisance action.

Note that moving them somewhere else in the garden when they could annoy another neighbour would not legally be a solution (it might be practically however) - a legal nuisance exists irrespective of whether anyone is currently complaining about it.

Of course, if there is sufficient land that the hens can be located away from all neighbours then it might be reasonable for that to happen but then given the reciprocal nature of the law of nuisance, the keepers of the birds might argue that that would be unreasonable unless the neighbours can also do the same (should they decide to keep hens).

Stateofart

doodling said:

Hi,

marycanary said:

Stateofart said:

So, I would tread carefully - there is nothing you can do about the noise.

Untrue.  The noise if straying into anti-social territory can be deemed a nuisance.  Think it's 5mins noise per hour is deemed a nuisance.  We have just gone through this process with our neighbour's dog barking.  Took a while, but now they are on final warning to stop it otherwise they'll be prosecuted.

I've already quoted the law on statutory nuisance (SN). In deciding if a SN exists it is all about what is reasonable in a given circumstance, which has to be determined in each case. 5 minutes of noise once an hour may be a statutory nuisance in one situation but not in another. The length of time, location, volume, acoustic environment and time of day all have an impact. 

The council can take action if they deem it to be a SN. It isn't hard, complicated or particularly nuanced. I've taken cases myself and managed teams undertaking this work. However, some councils don't have the resources or will to take action so it's a bit potluck. If your council won't take action you can either,

Complain using the council's complaints procedure and then the Local Government Ombudsman
Take action yourself using the provisions of the Environmental Protection Act 1990

The often quoted Allotment Act expressly does not give anyone the right to create a SN

I absolutely agree that the Allotments Act doesn't give anyone the right to create a statutory nuisance but I would suggest that it gives a strong indication that it is reasonable to keep hens (not cockrels) with a consequent reasonable level of noise and odour.

The question that I would suggest would need to be decided in any legal proceedings is therefore not "is the keeping of hens reasonable" but "is the manner of keeping them appropriate to the location"?

Obviously if there is poor hygiene or animal welfare then this is an easy target for any nuisance action.

Note that moving them somewhere else in the garden when they could annoy another neighbour would not legally be a solution (it might be practically however) - a legal nuisance exists irrespective of whether anyone is currently complaining about it.

Of course, if there is sufficient land that the hens can be located away from all neighbours then it might be reasonable for that to happen but then given the reciprocal nature of the law of nuisance, the keepers of the birds might argue that that would be unreasonable unless the neighbours can also do the same (should they decide to keep hens).

I don't think the Allotments Act even applies here.  Nor is the question of should hens be allowed.  Regardless, if hens exist, and as a result they become a nuisance (smell, noise etc.) it's a case of following the reporting procedure.  A diary or log of when it is a nuisance, a warning to stop unreasonable smells or noise, a further diary or noise meter, final warnings then court if said behvaviour is deemed a nuisance and the owner seems to do little to stop it. 

theoretica

There is also the potential that the OP will find they get used to them - just as I moved to a place where there were far more seagulls, but my brain soon decided they weren't worth noting. 

doodling

Hi,

Stateofart said:

doodling said:

Hi,

marycanary said:

Stateofart said:

So, I would tread carefully - there is nothing you can do about the noise.

Untrue.  The noise if straying into anti-social territory can be deemed a nuisance.  Think it's 5mins noise per hour is deemed a nuisance.  We have just gone through this process with our neighbour's dog barking.  Took a while, but now they are on final warning to stop it otherwise they'll be prosecuted.

I've already quoted the law on statutory nuisance (SN). In deciding if a SN exists it is all about what is reasonable in a given circumstance, which has to be determined in each case. 5 minutes of noise once an hour may be a statutory nuisance in one situation but not in another. The length of time, location, volume, acoustic environment and time of day all have an impact. 

The council can take action if they deem it to be a SN. It isn't hard, complicated or particularly nuanced. I've taken cases myself and managed teams undertaking this work. However, some councils don't have the resources or will to take action so it's a bit potluck. If your council won't take action you can either,

Complain using the council's complaints procedure and then the Local Government Ombudsman
Take action yourself using the provisions of the Environmental Protection Act 1990

The often quoted Allotment Act expressly does not give anyone the right to create a SN

I absolutely agree that the Allotments Act doesn't give anyone the right to create a statutory nuisance but I would suggest that it gives a strong indication that it is reasonable to keep hens (not cockrels) with a consequent reasonable level of noise and odour.

The question that I would suggest would need to be decided in any legal proceedings is therefore not "is the keeping of hens reasonable" but "is the manner of keeping them appropriate to the location"?

Obviously if there is poor hygiene or animal welfare then this is an easy target for any nuisance action.

Note that moving them somewhere else in the garden when they could annoy another neighbour would not legally be a solution (it might be practically however) - a legal nuisance exists irrespective of whether anyone is currently complaining about it.

Of course, if there is sufficient land that the hens can be located away from all neighbours then it might be reasonable for that to happen but then given the reciprocal nature of the law of nuisance, the keepers of the birds might argue that that would be unreasonable unless the neighbours can also do the same (should they decide to keep hens).

I don't think the Allotments Act even applies here.  Nor is the question of should hens be allowed.  Regardless, if hens exist, and as a result they become a nuisance (smell, noise etc.) it's a case of following the reporting procedure.  A diary or log of when it is a nuisance, a warning to stop unreasonable smells or noise, a further diary or noise meter, final warnings then court if said behvaviour is deemed a nuisance and the owner seems to do little to stop it. 

Of course the Allotments Act applies here, assuming that the OP is in England or Wales.  It's relevance is with respect to the reasonableness of keeping hens, not with respect to its role in abolishing the restrictions relating to keeping them (except where people are mistakenly suggesting that deeds or covenants might be helpful to the OP).

The point I am trying to make is that it is probably as reasonable to keep hens as it is to keep children.  Just because they make a noise doesn't mean they are a legal nuisance.

Similarly it is probably as reasonable to keep hens as it is to grow roses, just because they make a smell doesn't mean that they are a legal nuisance.

It is important to distinguish between noise and smell and excessive noise and smell.  I absolutely agree that excessive noise and/or smell are a legal nuisance but it will not be the OP who gets to determine what is excessive.

Dustyevsky

Longwalker said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Brie said:

I would have assumed that if there was a restriction for keeping hens for one property then there might be for the neighbours as well.  What do your deeds say?

I'll say this again as people seem to keep missing it.

It is legally impossible to ban people from keeping chickens (for non-commercial purposes) on land they occupy without a new act of parliament.

It doesn't matter what deeds, rental agreements, bylaws, notices on walls or my deceased great aunt says on the matter, parliament has passed a law (Allotments Act 1950) which overrides all that.

Looking at deeds will not help.

Cockerals - PITA and not required for keeping hens or chickens, only required for breeding 

I must have imagined the 4 cockerels we brought on for family Christmas dinners in '21.   Stronger meat than on a hen and timing needs to be good.

We're rural, so no problems with keeping animals, but I'd rather have a cockerel crowing at any time than neighbour's dogs kicking-off, or a tractor starting up at 05.30.

desdemona01

Have you actually spoken to your neighbour about the chickens and your concerns?

Pollycat

desdemona01 said:

Have you actually spoken to your neighbour about the chickens and your concerns?

From the first post:

orangeflowers said:

I have tried politely speaking with them, but they were very abrupt with me, telling me that the chickens were there first! (Not off to a great start!)