Is this will valid

youyangs

Sarahspangles said:

youyangs said:

Yes I check every day and there is no grant yet.

I must be mistaken then.

I thought courts could consider will execution and that suspicious circumstances could be presented in cases where there is a question about mental capacity.

With suspicion, the burden of proof about mental capacity would fall on the propounder of the will.
 

But you don’t want to go to Court?  Nor have you raised a caveat which could compel the executor and beneficiary to conclude the settlement.  You’re stuck in the ‘do I have a case’ loop but you’re ask the wrong people…..

Like I said, I'm canvassing opinion. Also someone else may come to this thread and see something that helps them in the future. I'm going to enter the caveat, which I might have hesitated about prior to creating the thread. With the intention to compel settlement - hopefully.

Yes I want to avoid litigation. The courts even promote people avoiding court proceedings and expensive litigation. Why would anyone want to spend a large percentage of an estate, on querying the estate? It would make no commercial sense, if this was a business issue. So it makes no sense in querying property and assets of a will. 

I can't really ask the main beneficiaries what they think about the strengths of my case, before I canvass opinion on those strengths. Well I can, but it feels wise to me to ask a few independent people first. I'm only asking people what they think. Not to decide the case for me.

bobster2

youyangs said:

bobster2 said:

youyangs said:

jimbo6977 said:

Likely it's valid until a court says otherwise, but getting to that point will be difficult and expensive. 
Who is the other witness to the will?

The other witness was an 82 year old neighbour.

And you now want to question the validity of this based on neighbours age???

No I'm not questioning that validity of the will, because of the neighbours age.
Someone asked me about the other witness.

Ok - it's just that when you wrote "82 year old neighbour" instead of just "neighbour" this implied that you thought the age was relevant.

BooJewels

I've been following this thread and it strikes me that the only way you're going to get a definitive answer, is to consult a suitably qualified contentious probate lawyer and present them with the Will and your evidence and seek their legal opinion.  You're just driving yourself nuts wondering about this and I can understand why, when it's your mother, with whom you seem to have had a difficult relationship already.  Many lawyers will give an initial consultation for free.

For what it's worth, as an aside, I'm just executing a will for my recently departed elderly aunt and in her papers I found a photocopy of her husband's will and Grant of Probate documents.  The will is hand written on one of those fancy pre-printed sheets of paper you can buy in stationers.  After his name and address the content of the will is 25 hand written words, saying he revokes all previous wills, appoints his wife executor and "I give everything I own to her" - then witnessed at the bottom by 2 people who worked at a local business.  Astonishingly, it was 'proved' through Probate.  

I'm also not sure that the witness angle has any merit - witnesses are witness to the testator signing in front of them and by independent, it means that they can't be a beneficiary or the partner or spouse of one - I don't think the law distinguishes that the witness can't be friends with a beneficiary.  The executor can witness, as long as they don't also benefit.

youyangs

Did the two witnesses from the local business know the wife, or write the will? Or make any mistakes writing the will? Or neglect to have the mental capacity of the wife checked, or forget to provide any legal advice?

This is what this thread is about, among a few other things. Does the witness in this case have to be independent of the beneficiary, should they need to give evidence in court?

BooJewels

You rather missed my point @youyangs - I was merely illustrating that just because a Will looks a little unconventional to a lay person doesn't mean it isn't perfectly legally valid - I know this one was, as Probate was attained on the strength of it - it was proved in law. 

So you'll probably need to make a move before Probate is approved. And the only way you're going to get a definitive and objective view of your case, is to take the appropriate legal advice specific to the documents and medical proof you have - and it needs to be someone appropriately qualified and experienced in contentious Probate.

If all you want is for people to agree with you to make you feel better about it, you're going to be disappointed, as no one here has seen the documents or is suitably qualified to comment further than we have. I can appreciate how upset and aggrieved you must feel (the Will I'm executing now has something in it that I'm not happy about, but I'm just going to have to suck it up, so I have an idea how it might feel) - but sometimes you just have to walk away and cut your losses for the sake of your own emotional well being.  The price of starting this battle might not just be down to money.

poppystar

If you are going to challenge this Will you do need to act quickly - it will be much harder to achieve a good outcome after probate has been granted.

There are ‘no win no fee’ companies out there who will look at your case and assess whether it is likely to succeed. This would get you round your immediate fears of going down a costly route and give you a more considered answer than anyone here can. If any challenge is likely to succeed you can then make the decision how to proceed from there with a clearer knowledge of what the costs might be. 

Sea_Shell

BooJewels said:

You rather missed my point @youyangs - I was merely illustrating that just because a Will looks a little unconventional to a lay person doesn't mean it isn't perfectly legally valid - I know this one was, as Probate was attained on the strength of it - it was proved in law. 

AIUI, don't wills (the document itself) only have to meet about 5 basic principles to be valid?

Revoke any previous will
Name an executor
Name a beneficiary(ies) (to account for whole estate)
Be signed/dated
Be witnessed

A legal will can be a very basic document.   

youyangs

BooJewels said:

You rather missed my point @youyangs - I was merely illustrating that just because a Will looks a little unconventional to a lay person doesn't mean it isn't perfectly legally valid - I know this one was, as Probate was attained on the strength of it - it was proved in law. 

So you'll probably need to make a move before Probate is approved. And the only way you're going to get a definitive and objective view of your case, is to take the appropriate legal advice specific to the documents and medical proof you have - and it needs to be someone appropriately qualified and experienced in contentious Probate.

If all you want is for people to agree with you to make you feel better about it, you're going to be disappointed, as no one here has seen the documents or is suitably qualified to comment further than we have. I can appreciate how upset and aggrieved you must feel (the Will I'm executing now has something in it that I'm not happy about, but I'm just going to have to suck it up, so I have an idea how it might feel) - but sometimes you just have to walk away and cut your losses for the sake of your own emotional well being.  The price of starting this battle might not just be down to money.

I accept what you are saying and I've taken on board your comments. I'm not looking for people to "make me feel better". I'm just canvassing opinion, good or bad. I'm sorry to hear about the problems with the will, that you are dealing with. 

youyangs

poppystar said:

If you are going to challenge this Will you do need to act quickly - it will be much harder to achieve a good outcome after probate has been granted.

There are ‘no win no fee’ companies out there who will look at your case and assess whether it is likely to succeed. This would get you round your immediate fears of going down a costly route and give you a more considered answer than anyone here can. If any challenge is likely to succeed you can then make the decision how to proceed from there with a clearer knowledge of what the costs might be. 

It does seem that time is the key, as mentioned by others as well.

I've looked into the "no win no fee" option and it could be worth considering.

Part of my reluctance in litigation costs is a result of memories of my dad working hard for his little "castle". It's breaks my heart to think of a lifetime of dreams and promises, with a net result of filling the pockets of those who don't need it. Just because my mum was suffering with mental health and dismissive of the help I was providing for her.

Though I guess plenty of estates are lost to care home fees as well. Life isn't always fair.

poppystar

youyangs said:

poppystar said:

If you are going to challenge this Will you do need to act quickly - it will be much harder to achieve a good outcome after probate has been granted.

There are ‘no win no fee’ companies out there who will look at your case and assess whether it is likely to succeed. This would get you round your immediate fears of going down a costly route and give you a more considered answer than anyone here can. If any challenge is likely to succeed you can then make the decision how to proceed from there with a clearer knowledge of what the costs might be. 

It does seem that time is the key, as mentioned by others as well.

I've looked into the "no win no fee" option and it could be worth considering.

Part of my reluctance in litigation costs is a result of memories of my dad working hard for his little "castle". It's breaks my heart to think of a lifetime of dreams and promises, with a net result of filling the pockets of those who don't need it. Just because my mum was suffering with mental health and dismissive of the help I was providing for her.

Though I guess plenty of estates are lost to care home fees as well. Life isn't always fair.

But now is the time to try to see if it is possible to minimise the loss. Do nothing and it is a certainty that the Will will stand. Time for action or to accept you have decided on no action. This is no criticism, there may be very good reasons why you are reluctant or unable to act, but that is the one decision you have control over. If you decide to leave it all as it is then you need to put your attention on accepting that and moving on however you can.