What’s mine is ours, what’s hers is...hers?!

the_pman28

My wife and I are about two thirds through paying off our mortgage helped, in part, by several lump sums received from my parents which, at various stages, have paid down the mortgage considerably. Rightly or wrongly, I have always taken the view that we’d be better off getting rid of the burden of a mortgage quicker rather than tucking money away in savings.

We both have our individual current accounts and have normally paid into mortgage / bills account on a pro rata basis reflecting our respective earnings – everything after is ours to do as we please which seems to have worked well to date. Clearly we both benefit from my proactive approach to paying down the mortgage.

My wife unfortunately lost her mother two years ago and received some inheritance that she has kept in her separate account on top of her individual savings which I don’t have any sightlines to. Whilst I want to be sensitive to the fact that this is her inheritance and her savings it has caused some friction in the past on the basis that I treat any money I have as ours which is at odds with her approach to keep money separately. She says that her savings are there for the family, but the fact that I have no visibility nor access to her savings, makes it feel as if it’s her money not ours.

Fast forward to now, I have developed chronic sciatica having slipped a disc. It is becoming increasingly debilitating to the point that I am looking at private surgery options costing £9,000. The condition is stopping me do simple things like walking the kids into school etc and needs addressing quicker than NHS treatment will allow.

I don’t have anywhere near £9,000 in savings to deal with it, but my wife has said that we can dip into her savings to have it done. I am slightly resentful of this and would almost rather take a loan out and pay it off myself – it rather feels like I would be approaching my wife for a loan in any case given the way she has managed her savings.  

Hindsight being a wonderful thing, I probably should have kept some of my inherited cash as my own savings but, to be honest, I never envisaged a scenario where our funds wouldn’t be pooled especially since having kids.

My question is whether I am being unreasonable / silly / insensitive in expecting full visibility of money available to our family given that I have put anything I have into our shared assets. I don't resent her having her own savings but I do feel she should have been more transparent about how she intended to manage our respective money. As it stands, she's invested nothing into paying our mortgage down but on an individual basis, benefits considerably. Meanwhile, I feel like I have to go cap in hand for money to get this surgery done. 

Sorry, bit of a ramble but hopefully you get the point... 

powerful_Rogue

the_pman28 said:

My wife and I are about two thirds through paying off our mortgage helped, in part, by several lump sums received from my parents which, at various stages, have paid down the mortgage considerably. Rightly or wrongly, I have always taken the view that we’d be better off getting rid of the burden of a mortgage quicker rather than tucking money away in savings.

We both have our individual current accounts and have normally paid into mortgage / bills account on a pro rata basis reflecting our respective earnings – everything after is ours to do as we please which seems to have worked well to date. Clearly we both benefit from my proactive approach to paying down the mortgage.

My wife unfortunately lost her mother two years ago and received some inheritance that she has kept in her separate account on top of her individual savings which I don’t have any sightlines to. Whilst I want to be sensitive to the fact that this is her inheritance and her savings it has caused some friction in the past on the basis that I treat any money I have as ours which is at odds with her approach to keep money separately. She says that her savings are there for the family, but the fact that I have no visibility nor access to her savings, makes it feel as if it’s her money not ours.

Fast forward to now, I have developed chronic sciatica having slipped a disc. It is becoming increasingly debilitating to the point that I am looking at private surgery options costing £9,000. The condition is stopping me do simple things like walking the kids into school etc and needs addressing quicker than NHS treatment will allow.

I don’t have anywhere near £9,000 in savings to deal with it, but my wife has said that we can dip into her savings to have it done. I am slightly resentful of this and would almost rather take a loan out and pay it off myself – it rather feels like I would be approaching my wife for a loan in any case given the way she has managed her savings.  

Hindsight being a wonderful thing, I probably should have kept some of my inherited cash as my own savings but, to be honest, I never envisaged a scenario where our funds wouldn’t be pooled especially since having kids.

My question is whether I am being unreasonable / silly / insensitive in expecting full visibility of money available to our family given that I have put anything I have into our shared assets. I don't resent her having her own savings but I do feel she should have been more transparent about how she intended to manage our respective money. As it stands, she's invested nothing into paying our mortgage down but on an individual basis, benefits considerably. Meanwhile, I feel like I have to go cap in hand for money to get this surgery done. 

Sorry, bit of a ramble but hopefully you get the point... 

Nope, not at all.

theoretica

It may be the limitation of the written word, but what you have written seems as though you assumed how money would be handled, but expected her to explicitly discuss as she differed from your assumptions.  Which she may not have thought about until her inheritance came.  Open discussion is great, and responsibility for it seems equal.

Perhaps a solution to discuss would be to look at how much money from your parents went into the mortgage and to equalise that, by her putting some money into the house, and you taking some out.  In effect reducing 'her' savings, but increasing 'yours'.

pinkshoes

the_pman28 said:

My wife and I are about two thirds through paying off our mortgage helped, in part, by several lump sums received from my parents which, at various stages, have paid down the mortgage considerably. Rightly or wrongly, I have always taken the view that we’d be better off getting rid of the burden of a mortgage quicker rather than tucking money away in savings.

We both have our individual current accounts and have normally paid into mortgage / bills account on a pro rata basis reflecting our respective earnings – everything after is ours to do as we please which seems to have worked well to date. Clearly we both benefit from my proactive approach to paying down the mortgage.

My wife unfortunately lost her mother two years ago and received some inheritance that she has kept in her separate account on top of her individual savings which I don’t have any sightlines to. Whilst I want to be sensitive to the fact that this is her inheritance and her savings it has caused some friction in the past on the basis that I treat any money I have as ours which is at odds with her approach to keep money separately. She says that her savings are there for the family, but the fact that I have no visibility nor access to her savings, makes it feel as if it’s her money not ours.

Fast forward to now, I have developed chronic sciatica having slipped a disc. It is becoming increasingly debilitating to the point that I am looking at private surgery options costing £9,000. The condition is stopping me do simple things like walking the kids into school etc and needs addressing quicker than NHS treatment will allow.

I don’t have anywhere near £9,000 in savings to deal with it, but my wife has said that we can dip into her savings to have it done. I am slightly resentful of this and would almost rather take a loan out and pay it off myself – it rather feels like I would be approaching my wife for a loan in any case given the way she has managed her savings.  

Hindsight being a wonderful thing, I probably should have kept some of my inherited cash as my own savings but, to be honest, I never envisaged a scenario where our funds wouldn’t be pooled especially since having kids.

My question is whether I am being unreasonable / silly / insensitive in expecting full visibility of money available to our family given that I have put anything I have into our shared assets. I don't resent her having her own savings but I do feel she should have been more transparent about how she intended to manage our respective money. As it stands, she's invested nothing into paying our mortgage down but on an individual basis, benefits considerably. Meanwhile, I feel like I have to go cap in hand for money to get this surgery done. 

Sorry, bit of a ramble but hopefully you get the point... 

The bit in bold implies one of you perhaps earns more than the other.

You have always had the rule about putting prospective EARNINGS into the joint account, but this is not earnings.

Me and Mr Pinkshoes have the same system as you. He earns twice what I earn, even though in term time we work the same hours. We pay in different amounts and have roughly the same amount left over. Him more than me as he has more expensive hobbies.

I inherited a 5 figure lump sum from a relative which is in MY savings account. It's never crossed my mind to put it in the joint account. I spend it on kids activities, a new bathroom for our house, probably new windows for the house soon... I don't want to put the money in the joint account. I like being able to contribute more from the money that I inherited. 

If Mr Pinkshoes inherited some money then although I'd expect him to use it to pay for family and household stuff, I wouldn't expect it to go into the joint account. 

And yes, if Mr Pinkshoes needed a private operation then I'd give him the money. 

Have you asked her to use some of they money to pay the mortgage down?

the_pman28

theoretica said:

It may be the limitation of the written word, but what you have written seems as though you assumed how money would be handled, but expected her to explicitly discuss as she differed from your assumptions.  Which she may not have thought about until her inheritance came.  Open discussion is great, and responsibility for it seems equal.

Perhaps a solution to discuss would be to look at how much money from your parents went into the mortgage and to equalise that, by her putting some money into the house, and you taking some out.  In effect reducing 'her' savings, but increasing 'yours'.

I think you're spot on. I probably made some assumptions about how we treat our money and failed to categorically communicate that. It didn't dawn on me at the time that we would do anything other than lump our money together.

Equally, I think there have been ample opportunities to redress the situation once it's become apparent that she wants to account for things in a different way. I'm all for financial independence, but it's got to cut both ways to work. Knowing that it has been the source of some historic tension I rather wish she instigated this conversation rather than me having to bring it up again. 

Your suggestion is sensible in opening up the opportunity to effectively 'buy in' to the mortgage in a way that is more equitable. Unfortunately, it is quite difficult to broach the subject without coming across as mean-spirited and petty. 

pjcox2005

Ultimately your wife has said her inheritance is there for family use, and when the time has arisen (i.e. your surgery) she has said no problem and been willing to pay. Turning that down and taking out a loan would be ridiculous.

The second part of the conversation i can see as an annoyance which you just need to chat through sensibly. I can see the benefit of people having a solo account (e.g. issues if relationships went south, or you see cases of domestic abuse (obviously not implying that here)) so having that freedom is a good thing. I would probably expect my wife to say how much the inheritance and savings were and be willing to spend it together on choices (but again so far she has been willing to spend unless she's said no to other suggestions).

As a separate point, putting it all against the mortgage is also often not financially the best move and limits flexibility on cash as you are experiencing now, so perhaps she disagreed with your past approach, and perhaps that's actually the right outcome.

Edited to add: If you have a history of high spending/debt/gambling issues then I'd probably say keeping it from you or telling you a lower figure may be very sensible so it doesn't get blown.

the_pman28

pinkshoes said:

I inherited a 5 figure lump sum from a relative which is in MY savings account. It's never crossed my mind to put it in the joint account. I spend it on kids activities, a new bathroom for our house, probably new windows for the house soon... I don't want to put the money in the joint account. I like being able to contribute more from the money that I inherited. 

If Mr Pinkshoes inherited some money then although I'd expect him to use it to pay for family and household stuff, I wouldn't expect it to go into the joint account. 

And yes, if Mr Pinkshoes needed a private operation then I'd give him the money. 

Have you asked her to use some of they money to pay the mortgage down?

Thank you - nice to get a different perspective on this. Your scenario sounds very similar to ours. We have discussed often using her money to undertake house improvements (new kitchen etc) prior to this health issue. Trouble is (and maybe this is my hang-up) we never make any progress on any of these things because I have no visibility of the budgets available. It feels a bit crass to ask 'how much have you got?'... but it feels like she is the gatekeeper for the money rather than it being treated as our money. For example, she will never instigate discussions about new flooring or kitchen or whatever, and when I do, it feels like I'm spending someone else's money for them... 

...and no, I've not asked her to put more money into the mortgage. I rather wish she felt motivated to do that off her own back rather than have to be asked?! Perhaps I am being a bit too proud about the issue and avoiding constructive converstaion meanwhile building up resentments! 

MalMonroe

the_pman28 said:

My wife and I are about two thirds through paying off our mortgage helped, in part, by several lump sums received from my parents which, at various stages, have paid down the mortgage considerably. Rightly or wrongly, I have always taken the view that we’d be better off getting rid of the burden of a mortgage quicker rather than tucking money away in savings.

We both have our individual current accounts and have normally paid into mortgage / bills account on a pro rata basis reflecting our respective earnings – everything after is ours to do as we please which seems to have worked well to date. Clearly we both benefit from my proactive approach to paying down the mortgage.

My wife unfortunately lost her mother two years ago and received some inheritance that she has kept in her separate account on top of her individual savings which I don’t have any sightlines to. Whilst I want to be sensitive to the fact that this is her inheritance and her savings it has caused some friction in the past on the basis that I treat any money I have as ours which is at odds with her approach to keep money separately. She says that her savings are there for the family, but the fact that I have no visibility nor access to her savings, makes it feel as if it’s her money not ours.

Fast forward to now, I have developed chronic sciatica having slipped a disc. It is becoming increasingly debilitating to the point that I am looking at private surgery options costing £9,000. The condition is stopping me do simple things like walking the kids into school etc and needs addressing quicker than NHS treatment will allow.

I don’t have anywhere near £9,000 in savings to deal with it, but my wife has said that we can dip into her savings to have it done. I am slightly resentful of this and would almost rather take a loan out and pay it off myself – it rather feels like I would be approaching my wife for a loan in any case given the way she has managed her savings.  

Hindsight being a wonderful thing, I probably should have kept some of my inherited cash as my own savings but, to be honest, I never envisaged a scenario where our funds wouldn’t be pooled especially since having kids.

My question is whether I am being unreasonable / silly / insensitive in expecting full visibility of money available to our family given that I have put anything I have into our shared assets. I don't resent her having her own savings but I do feel she should have been more transparent about how she intended to manage our respective money. As it stands, she's invested nothing into paying our mortgage down but on an individual basis, benefits considerably. Meanwhile, I feel like I have to go cap in hand for money to get this surgery done. 

Sorry, bit of a ramble but hopefully you get the point... 

Well firstly I think it's really very sad that you don't seem able to talk properly to your wife about this. We are just strangers in an online forum and we will all obviously have our own ideas. This is mine -

I'd have to say YES to the first part of your question. Your wife wants to pay for your op. She doesn't want you to suffer any longer than you have to, yet you have had a negative response. Why? 

If you want a more open and honest relationship with your wife - and it seems like you do - then you're going to have to tell her that. You say you don't resent her having her own savings/money but you do. Why do you resent the fact that she, as you say "benefits considerably on an individual basis"? You don't have to go cap in hand anywhere, the money has been offered.

If you can't tell your wife exactly how you feel then who can you tell? I was in a marriage where we couldn't seem to open up and be honest about our thoughts and feelings. That led to our divorce. Don't let that happen to you because it's obvious that your wife really cares about you. It's only money at the end of the day. Your wife is not being selfish with it, she's said her savings are there for the family and she's happy to spend on an op that will benefit only you. Please try not to be resentful of her - talk to her. You may have talked already but it's obvious that the air is still not clear as you are still really resentful. 

When you say "Hindsight being a wonderful thing, I probably should have kept some of my inherited cash as my own savings" - it comes across as you regretting and feeling resentment about having done good things for your wife and family. You did good. And your wife is doing good. Just in different ways.

I do hope you manage to sort this out and also that you manage to accept your wife's offer and get the surgery you need without having to take a loan. Refusing her offer and taking out a loan seems a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Please get chatting! Is my best advice. 

This is obviously all my own thought and opinion. But I do know, after having been in such a relationship, that resentment can ruin a great partnership.

Hope that's a bit helpful. Obviously ignore at will. All the very best with everything.

Nelliegrace

I cannot advise in your savings issues, but I have had prolapsed discs three times as a Nurse and Midwife, twice ending up in hospital for spinal injections under G.A. at the orthopaedic hospital. Sciatica is horribly painful, painkillers don’t touch it, you have my sympathy @the_pman28

The best treatment I have found was a well taught Pilates class at the local leisure centre, where every move had to be correct. I could do very little at first, but got a lot of core strength, mobility and balance back, and lost the limp and the leak too. I have had no back pain for four years now. It took about a year, and now it costs £20 a month for six months on the “Forward to Health,” scheme, and then £30 a month membership. It might be worth trying, because surgery is not without risks. 

the_pman28

Just picking up a few of the last comments which seem to be arriving at similar places...

Yes, I probably was a bit daft putting most of the savings / inheritance against the mortgage because it has limited certain personal financial flexibility around dealing with unforeseen.

@pjcox2005 - absolutely no issues with financial independence for all the reasons you outline. I suppose the issue I'm encountering is that in pooling all 'my money' into shared assets, I've lost my own financial independence - which is a result of my poor budgeting! 

@MalMonroe – I appreciate your candour. Sometimes you need some home truths. I know you are all strangers on the internet but just from these few responses, I feel like I will approach the conversation with my wife in a more constructive way having taken on different perspectives. It’s helped me air some issues anonymously that would have otherwise culminated in an argument. Maybe that is sad?

I have an issue being beholden to anyone – not sure from where it stems, but I need to get over it – it’s exactly like cutting my nose off to spite my face. 

@Nelliegrace - thanks, I'm a big advocate for pilates. Interestingly, I've had recurring sciatica for the last 4 - 5 years (particularly around Christmas / New Year time) and the only time I haven't was when I was regularly attending pilates classes. 

trailingspouse

Can I just bring a slightly different perspective to this?

You've put all available money into paying off your mortgage, at the expense of saving for the proverbial rainy day. Perhaps your wife has tried to talk to you about this - pointing out that savings are also important, maybe.

You've continued to pay off the mortgage. As a result, knowing that savings are also important, your wife has started saving in her own name. She has kept this away from you, worried that you would want to add it to the mortgage repayments. As she has said, it's for the family.

And now, when it's needed, she is offering it to you.

Talk to each other - and you can start off by saying Thank You.