Home insurance and subsidence

Pippoppy

Hi

Just a question about home insurance. I’m due to sell my house shortly and had noticed a crack on the outside of the house that I hadn’t noticed before. I spoke to my insurance about someone coming to look at it. I asked if it was nothing would it impact on my insurance by being classed as a subsidence problem and was told it wouldn’t. Anyway someone came out to look at it and it was just due to the age of the building, no movement, claim closed.

I’ve just come up to renewal and my premium had increased a lot assumed due to the cost of living crisis and the claim for my house to be looked at. When I looked at my renewal documents online the question Has your building ever shown signs of heave, landslip or subsidence? was answered as yes. I called up some other insurers as to what they would expect me to answer to that question and they were quite non comittal suggesting it was down to my interpretation. I contacted my own insurer to complain about this as clearly the problem was investigated and shown to be none of the above. I was then (mistakenly) told they actually couldn’t insure me at all at which point I panicked and just paid for the renewal that was in my account in the hope they couldn’t then take it back as obviously being refused insurance has other implications. I rang back and spoke to my case manager told me the previous information was incorrect but if I’d let the policy lapse I wouldn’t have been able to get a new policy. She told me the only way they could insure me is by answering yes to this question but they could look at it next renewal to see if it could be taken off as the claim would be closed (it was closed in November 2022). 

I’m a bit concerned this information is now connected to my house and what implications that has on future selling and insurance (case manager said it wouldn’t have any as the problem was investigated and shown to be nothing but that they couldn’t change the answer to that question) as well as being quite annoyed that a claim that cost 78£ has put me in financial difficulty! Is the above usual practice? Do I have any grounds for complaint

dunstonh

Movement and subsidence are two different things.

2022 was a drought year.   In drought years, it is very common for cracks to open up.   Mortar generally is long life but aging, imperfections in the mortar, weathering, animals nibbling away at it etc mean that weak spots will occur.      So, where there is a drought, properties that don't normally suffer with expansion and contraction will typically pop at the weakest point.   Some properties, my own included are constantly moving over the seasons (usually older ones on clay) and cracks are expected most years and routine maintenance clears them up.  They are mostly just cosmetic.  Although there can be ways to reduce impact.

Insurers do not like subsidence.   They are less fussy with movement, as long as its within tolerances.  So, it is important that the right things are said. i.e. don't refer to movement as subsidence.

However, certain distribution channels focus on the easy stuff and they dont want anything that may involve a bit more work.   So, comparison site style policies tend to be more restrictive in what they accept than the type of policy a broker can arrange.

if you have a copy of the claim report, that should clear things up.   If not, you can get a structural engineer to inspect the area of the crack and give you a written report.  They will grade it on a scale, along with any issues that they feel there may be.  They don't have to look at the whole house. Just the area you want them to.     You will then have a written report with detail that you can use as evidence to support the answering to the question.

i.e. if the report says there was no subsidence and it was just cracking due to drought and it's graded 2, which is cosmetic only, then you can clearly state that there has not been any subsidence.

We did exactly that when buying the property and the insurer took a copy of the structural engineers report and offered terms with no restrictions.   Although we did not use a comparison site.




 

Pippoppy

dunstonh said:

Movement and subsidence are two different things.

2022 was a drought year.   In drought years, it is very common for cracks to open up.   Mortar generally is long life but aging, imperfections in the mortar, weathering, animals nibbling away at it etc mean that weak spots will occur.      So, where there is a drought, properties that don't normally suffer with expansion and contraction will typically pop at the weakest point.   Some properties, my own included are constantly moving over the seasons (usually older ones on clay) and cracks are expected most years and routine maintenance clears them up.  They are mostly just cosmetic.  Although there can be ways to reduce impact.

Insurers do not like subsidence.   They are less fussy with movement, as long as its within tolerances.  So, it is important that the right things are said. i.e. don't refer to movement as subsidence.

However, certain distribution channels focus on the easy stuff and they dont want anything that may involve a bit more work.   So, comparison site style policies tend to be more restrictive in what they accept than the type of policy a broker can arrange.

if you have a copy of the claim report, that should clear things up.   If not, you can get a structural engineer to inspect the area of the crack and give you a written report.  They will grade it on a scale, along with any issues that they feel there may be.  They don't have to look at the whole house. Just the area you want them to.     You will then have a written report with detail that you can use as evidence to support the answering to the question.

i.e. if the report says there was no subsidence and it was just cracking due to drought and it's graded 2, which is cosmetic only, then you can clearly state that there has not been any subsidence.

We did exactly that when buying the property and the insurer took a copy of the structural engineers report and offered terms with no restrictions.   Although we did not use a comparison site.




 

It was my own insurer that did the report it just said ‘no movement, just an age thing’

Annemos

Hello Pippoppy. I would not be at all happy with this either. 

Some things I am noticing these days, is that many companies have an internal computer system that generates quotes (or does other account management). And it requires certain inputs to even work. Any deviation and it gets stuck in a knot!


So I had an issue in the middle of a Subsidence claim, where they could only get the system to work for a new renewal, if it said I had been Underpinned!!   I was getting very annoyed about this because I was NOT underpinned and it really worried me that this was stated! I bothered them about it and I received an e-mail saying this had needed to be done for their internal system but confirming I was NOT underpinned. 

(Here is another example... I just opened up an ISA at a major bank and it can be set up by phone. Nowhere in the terms and conditions does it say we have to use Internet Banking at any stage. Now I have been told that they have to set me up for Internet Banking on their system, or I shall not be able to use their auto phone banking system, which I always use.  This is an inherent quirk (knot) in their computer system. I have submitted a Complaint to see if they can sort this out.) 


Question to the people who know about these things. Is it likely that any other Insurers would be able to see that method of inputting for Pippoppy, that she is describing? Surely any CUE entry (Claims and Underwriting Exchange), would not be showing a Subsidence Claim? If it does, surely Pippoppy could file a Complaint with the Ombudsman to get that corrected? 

(Pippoppy would of course have to answer any future question like "has your property ever had any cracking" honestly.)

Annemos

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4410233/subsidence-claim-on-insurance-which-was-not-subsidence/p1

Found this,  Pip. 

It seems to give good advice. If there is an entry on the CUE, they recommend complaining. There is a procedure to follow re time limits so you would have to be careful for that. (Complaint has to go to Insurer first and they have 8 weeks. Then a 6-month time limit for the next step to Ombudsman.) 

I don't know how long it takes a Home Insurance "incident" to hit the CUE, after a possible claim was looked into. (If they use the CUE.)