We’re being charged over £3k for solicitors!??

EssexHebridean

Nb5123 said:

Flugelhorn said:

Oh dear - next time don't go for one that the EA suggests, they probably get commission.

Property will be leasehold and that can add to the costs, what sort of things have they quoted - there should be a full breakdown ie professional fees, searches, transfers, ID checks, etc etc 

This is the breakdown of costs:

Conveyancing fee	949.00	189.80	20.00% This is the actual cost for the basic legal work. Possibly a little on the high side for the property type but not wildly unreasonable.
Electronic Money Transfer Fee	80.00	16.00	20.00% If this is for a single transfer then it's loaded a bit. If for two, then reasonable.
Stamp Duty Land Tax Return Fee	100.00	20.00	20.00% About standard - we charge £90 as a rule.
Electronic ID Check	50.00	10.00	20.00% A new thing but being done by a number of firms
Preparation of Chancel Search Policy	36.00	7.20	20.00% Still standard in some places
Mortgage Admin Fee	249.00	49.80	20.00% Not unreasonable
Leasehold Fee	399.00	79.80	20.00% Possibly a little steep but not unreasonable
Notice of transfer	35.00	7.00	20.00% Nothing to do with the solicitor at all - it's a fee that has to be paid to the freeholder or management co to notify them of the transfer to you.
Notice of Charge	35.00	7.00	20.00% Nothing to do with the solicitor at all - it's a fee that has to be paid to the freeholder or management co to notify them of the mortgage in place to you.
Preparing compliance certificate	50.00	10.00	20.00% I would expect this to come within the ordinary legal charges or the charges for dealing with the leasehold - it's pretty standard work and not time consuming.
Retention	50.00	10.00	20.00% Allowing that you are buying why are you being asked for a retention? And why are they adding VAT onto it?
Source Of Funds	75.00	15.00	20.00% this seems high - you might ask them to justify it particularly if it wasn't in the original quote
Indemnity Insurance	75.00	15.00	20.00% Nothing to do with the solicitor and you should have had it discussed and the policy cost notified during the process?
Dealing with Licence to Assign	150.00	30.00	20.00% Surprised it's added as an extra TBH.
Deed of Variation	150.00	30.00	20.00% Not standard, but possibly reasonable enough.
	0.00	0.00
Taxable Expenses
Initial Searches	287.67	57.53	20.00% This will have been the drainage, enviro and local authority searches
Final Searches	7.00	1.40	20.00% This is the final bankruptcy and priority searches - necessary parts of the process.
	0.00	0.00
	0.00	0.00
Non-Taxable Expenses
	0.00
Total Charges and Expenses	2777.67
Total VAT	555.53
TOTAL AMOUNT due: 3333.20

One thing that does stand out is that the statement should include any money you paid on account - so the amount that you were asked for at the beginning of the transaction. As you suggest you paid across money for searches then that should certainly be deducted.

I'd suggest a line-by-line comparison with the original quotation you received so you can see exactly what differs. The Terms of retainer will allow for additional charges to be made if the matter turns out to be more onerous than first expected - but those costs should have been notified to you as the process went along. 

Having done the comparison, time for a polite query of anything you feel is extra or that you were not notified of, and a request for the statement to be re-drawn allowing for monies on account also. 

*edit - the bad news is that there is no land registry fee on there - that should be included. 

TBagpuss

EssexHebridean said:

Nb5123 said:

Flugelhorn said:

Oh dear - next time don't go for one that the EA suggests, they probably get commission.

Property will be leasehold and that can add to the costs, what sort of things have they quoted - there should be a full breakdown ie professional fees, searches, transfers, ID checks, etc etc 

This is the breakdown of costs:

Conveyancing fee	949.00	189.80	20.00% This is the actual cost for the basic legal work. Possibly a little on the high side for the property type but not wildly unreasonable.
Electronic Money Transfer Fee	80.00	16.00	20.00% If this is for a single transfer then it's loaded a bit. If for two, then reasonable.
Stamp Duty Land Tax Return Fee	100.00	20.00	20.00% About standard - we charge £90 as a rule.
Electronic ID Check	50.00	10.00	20.00% A new thing but being done by a number of firms
Preparation of Chancel Search Policy	36.00	7.20	20.00% Still standard in some places
Mortgage Admin Fee	249.00	49.80	20.00% Not unreasonable
Leasehold Fee	399.00	79.80	20.00% Possibly a little steep but not unreasonable
Notice of transfer	35.00	7.00	20.00% Nothing to do with the solicitor at all - it's a fee that has to be paid to the freeholder or management co to notify them of the transfer to you.
Notice of Charge	35.00	7.00	20.00% Nothing to do with the solicitor at all - it's a fee that has to be paid to the freeholder or management co to notify them of the mortgage in place to you.
Preparing compliance certificate	50.00	10.00	20.00% I would expect this to come within the ordinary legal charges or the charges for dealing with the leasehold - it's pretty standard work and not time consuming.
Retention	50.00	10.00	20.00% Allowing that you are buying why are you being asked for a retention? And why are they adding VAT onto it?
Source Of Funds	75.00	15.00	20.00% this seems high - you might ask them to justify it particularly if it wasn't in the original quote
Indemnity Insurance	75.00	15.00	20.00% Nothing to do with the solicitor and you should have had it discussed and the policy cost notified during the process?
Dealing with Licence to Assign	150.00	30.00	20.00% Surprised it's added as an extra TBH.
Deed of Variation	150.00	30.00	20.00% Not standard, but possibly reasonable enough.
	0.00	0.00
Taxable Expenses
Initial Searches	287.67	57.53	20.00% This will have been the drainage, enviro and local authority searches
Final Searches	7.00	1.40	20.00% This is the final bankruptcy and priority searches - necessary parts of the process.
	0.00	0.00
	0.00	0.00
Non-Taxable Expenses
	0.00
Total Charges and Expenses	2777.67
Total VAT	555.53
TOTAL AMOUNT due: 3333.20

One thing that does stand out is that the statement should include any money you paid on account - so the amount that you were asked for at the beginning of the transaction. As you suggest you paid across money for searches then that should certainly be deducted.

I'd suggest a line-by-line comparison with the original quotation you received so you can see exactly what differs. The Terms of retainer will allow for additional charges to be made if the matter turns out to be more onerous than first expected - but those costs should have been notified to you as the process went along. 

Having done the comparison, time for a polite query of anything you feel is extra or that you were not notified of, and a request for the statement to be re-drawn allowing for monies on account also. 

*edit - the bad news is that there is no land registry fee on there - that should be included. 

I agree with all these comments. The electronic ID seems steep - many companies now use this in order to show compliance with various requirements  around anti-money-laundering and anti0terrorism rules, but the fee seems pretty high - I was charged £10 last time I had one although some places charge more and it is per person, so £50 if you are a couple is £35 each which is less unreasonable 

As EssexHerbridean says , a fair few of these are payment to third parties where the conveyancers are simply the middleman passing on the payment. I'd expect any source of funds check to be part of the standard fee unless you had money coming in from multiple sources where you hadn't explained this at the outset , if it was unusually complex then it might be reasonable to ad an extra charge but you should have been informed.

Check this against the original quote your were given and see whether there is anything that wasn't shown and if so, whether it was something you were later told about (the indemnity policy and deed of variation, for instance, as these may not have been things that the conveyancers would have known would be needed, until they were part way through the process and had all of the documents and had raised questions of the seller.  

What is the retention for? Normally, a retention means that part of the payment for a property is being held back in case it is needed , for example where the seller says they have paid service charges up to date but haven't provided proof - I suppose that it could be a fee that your conveyancer is charging to deal with a retention but that's not clear. 

EssexHebridean

I'd also say that a retention on a leasehold property is incredibly standard and therefore dealing with it should be included in the originally quote legal fees. 

I'd also add that EA referrals aren't always a bad thing - we get clients via referral from a couple of local firms who know us, how we work, and that they have a good working relationship with our main conveyancing partner here. No referral fees are involved, and it is always totally transparent with clients throughout. The agents also suggest that the clients get a couple of other quotes to compare. From our perspective, having particular agents on the other side can be helpful in a transaction because it can be easier to get them to push things forward were it seems the other side are dragging their heels a little. None of this however changes the fact that the bill the OP is being presented with does seem unusually steep.

propertyrental

I imagine if you closely read the documentation you got from the solicitor at the start, these fees will be in there. Did you read it all carefully?
Some of those fees are high, and some would normally be included within the basis conveyancing fee (rather than being 'extras'), but some conveyaners add them as extras so the basic fee (£949) looks attractive.

Nb5123 said:

Flugelhorn said:

Oh dear - next time don't go for one that the EA suggests, they probably get commission.

Property will be leasehold and that can add to the costs, what sort of things have they quoted - there should be a full breakdown ie professional fees, searches, transfers, ID checks, etc etc 

This is the breakdown of costs:

Conveyancing fee	949.00	189.80	20.00%		a good basic fee
Electronic Money Transfer Fee	80.00	16.00	20.00%		very expensive
Stamp Duty Land Tax Return Fee	100.00	20.00	20.00%		often included free within conveyancing fee. Expensive
Electronic ID Check	50.00	10.00	20.00%		expensive
Preparation of Chancel Search Policy	36.00	7.20	20.00%		often included free within conveyancing fee.
Mortgage Admin Fee	249.00	49.80	20.00%		fairly normal though should have been clearly quoted upfront
Leasehold Fee	399.00	79.80	20.00%		often included free within conveyancing fee.  Expensive
Notice of transfer	35.00	7.00	20.00%
Notice of Charge	35.00	7.00	20.00%
Preparing compliance certificate	50.00	10.00	20.00%		often included free within conveyancing fee.
Retention	50.00	10.00	20.00%		????
Source Of Funds	75.00	15.00	20.00%		good grief! usually included free within conveyancing fee.
Indemnity Insurance	75.00	15.00	20.00%		for what?
Dealing with Licence to Assign	150.00	30.00	20.00%		usually included free within conveyancing fee.
Deed of Variation	150.00	30.00	20.00%		expensive
	0.00	0.00
Taxable Expenses
Initial Searches	287.67	57.53	20.00%
Final Searches	7.00	1.40	20.00%
	0.00	0.00
	0.00	0.00
Non-Taxable Expenses
	0.00
Total Charges and Expenses	2777.67
Total VAT	555.53
TOTAL AMOUNT due: 3333.20

I'm afraid they saw you coming. Commission to te estate agent....?

But check that these fees were all listed in the original quote OR the Terms of Business.

EssexHebridean

Whether there is a referral fee is a relevant question to ask - and should be declared if so. 

user1977

A "source of funds" surcharge? Sounds a bit like an airline charging you a "seatbelt rental" fee...

Fair enough for the things which are genuine complications, but stuff which is going to be part of every single purchase should really be bundled into the price.

diystarter7

Hi OP

Did the sols give you a quote and did they make clear to you what that included?

Thnaks

diystarter7

eddddy said:

Nb5123 said:

We were recommended this solicitors by our estate agents as it’s one they work closely with...

On this specific point - I suspect the estate agent referred you to these solicitors, because these solicitors pay a big referral fee.

i.e. £500 or £600 or more of the fee you paid to the solicitor goes to the estate agent, as a 'reward' for giving the solicitors your name and details.

So when an estate agent refers you to a solicitor, it isn't generally because the solicitor is particularly good, it's because they pay the biggest referral fee. 

eddddy said:

Nb5123 said:

We were recommended this solicitors by our estate agents as it’s one they work closely with...

On this specific point - I suspect the estate agent referred you to these solicitors, because these solicitors pay a big referral fee.

i.e. £500 or £600 or more of the fee you paid to the solicitor goes to the estate agent, as a 'reward' for giving the solicitors your name and details.

So when an estate agent refers you to a solicitor, it isn't generally because the solicitor is particularly good, it's because they pay the biggest referral fee. 

Hi

We've used sols via EA once in the past about 12 years ago, there were no extra fees

If there are referral fees, should they not have been told and why don't they show in the invoice?

Thnaks

EssexHebridean

Referral fees have to be declared, but would not be shown on the completion statement as they would not be paid from client account, nor would they form part of the client's transaction.  

TBG01

propertyrental said:

I imagine if you closely read the documentation you got from the solicitor at the start, these fees will be in there. Did you read it all carefully?
Some of those fees are high, and some would normally be included within the basis conveyancing fee (rather than being 'extras'), but some conveyaners add them as extras so the basic fee (£949) looks attractive.

Nb5123 said:

Flugelhorn said:

Oh dear - next time don't go for one that the EA suggests, they probably get commission.

Property will be leasehold and that can add to the costs, what sort of things have they quoted - there should be a full breakdown ie professional fees, searches, transfers, ID checks, etc etc 

This is the breakdown of costs:

Conveyancing fee	949.00	189.80	20.00%		a good basic fee
Electronic Money Transfer Fee	80.00	16.00	20.00%		very expensive
Stamp Duty Land Tax Return Fee	100.00	20.00	20.00%		often included free within conveyancing fee. Expensive
Electronic ID Check	50.00	10.00	20.00%		expensive
Preparation of Chancel Search Policy	36.00	7.20	20.00%		often included free within conveyancing fee.
Mortgage Admin Fee	249.00	49.80	20.00%		fairly normal though should have been clearly quoted upfront
Leasehold Fee	399.00	79.80	20.00%		often included free within conveyancing fee.  Expensive
Notice of transfer	35.00	7.00	20.00%
Notice of Charge	35.00	7.00	20.00%
Preparing compliance certificate	50.00	10.00	20.00%		often included free within conveyancing fee.
Retention	50.00	10.00	20.00%		????
Source Of Funds	75.00	15.00	20.00%		good grief! usually included free within conveyancing fee.
Indemnity Insurance	75.00	15.00	20.00%		for what?
Dealing with Licence to Assign	150.00	30.00	20.00%		usually included free within conveyancing fee.
Deed of Variation	150.00	30.00	20.00%		expensive
	0.00	0.00
Taxable Expenses
Initial Searches	287.67	57.53	20.00%
Final Searches	7.00	1.40	20.00%
	0.00	0.00
	0.00	0.00
Non-Taxable Expenses
	0.00
Total Charges and Expenses	2777.67
Total VAT	555.53
TOTAL AMOUNT due: 3333.20

I'm afraid they saw you coming. Commission to te estate agent....?

But check that these fees were all listed in the original quote OR the Terms of Business.

Not saying OP didn't, but for most clients, reading paperwork is seemingly optional.

People like to come on here and complain they can't get through to their Solicitor. Yeah because they're occupied going back and forth with someone contesting paying an abortive fee, when they've signed a document saying they agree to paying an abortive fee.