PCN from Civil Enforcement - Advise please

Gentleman

Hi everyone, I was wondering if I could get some advise in dealing with a PCN. Unfortunately, this is not first one I have received, but thanks to this amazing forum, I won the previous one.

Summary :
PCN received by post from "Civil Enforcement LTD" on the 06/03/2023.
Incident date: 18/12/2022
Issue Date: 27/02/2023
Location of Parked vehicle: Car park at Pately Bridge, The Lodge, Bewerley Park, Pateley Bridge, Harrogate, England, HG3 5BD
Terms and Conditions of Parking: Payment not made / permit not obtained in accordance with notified terms.
From 18/12/22 10:45:47 to 18/12/2022 11:07:32

Car (is not a lease, hire or company car) parked in the car park mentioned above, while trying to get a parking permit. There was no payment/ticket machine installed in the car park, it is only possible to pay by phone or via the app "Phone and Pay". 

The app was downloaded by the driver and then after battling through several app crashes and error messages, since the app did not allow to add any bank card details, and after several attempts, it was decided to leave the car park and the car was parked elsewhere. It was parked at the Southlands car park, Pateley Bridge HG3 5JX (on the other side of the river) where a parking permit was purchased via the “pay and display machine” with apple pay (transaction details from the bank can be provided if it would be needed).

I have read the "Newbies" post, and if I am not wrong, the first action is to complain to the owner of the land.


Kind regards,

Fruitcake

There are no templates for complaints, although there is a thread about successful complaints.

Your English is excellent judging b y your first post, and what you have written about the failure of the payment system will cover most of what you need to put in a complaint to both the landowner and your MP.

If the PCN was the first you heard about this then it is non PoFA compliant and incapable of holding the keeper liable. You can upload a copy to here for the regulars to check. Just make sure you remove personal data including the PCN number, and show us both sides.

If it is non-PoFA compliant then your complaint should be from the registered keeper saying only that the driver tried to pay or an occupant of the car tried to pay. It is important that the driver's identity is not revealed.

Gentleman

Thanks @Fruitcake for your quick response. I am going to send a complaint to the landowner then, and also another one to the MP 

Please see attached the PCN

Grizebeck

yep its a non pofa version, easy win

Fruitcake

As above, an easy win.

Plan A, landowner and MP complaint from the registered keeper ensuring the driver's identity is not revealed.

Plan B, appeal using the template in blue text from the NEWBIES. Send it from the registered keeper and add a one liner that since the NTK is not PoFA compliant the keeper cannot be held liable so they should cancel now and save themselves money.

Plan C, appeal to PoPLA if A and B fail. Use all the points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES, making point 1, non-PoFA compliant NTK and incapable of holding the keeper liable.
The NTK arrived too late for keeper liability to apply, and failed to include the mandatory wording required by the PoFA 2012. 

Gentleman

Thanks @Fruitcake & @Grizebeck for your comments,

My initial intention is to go with plan A.
I have been trying to find a complaint from another user, but couldn't find it. I was wondering if you could tell me where I can find one, since I would like to use the right wording, to avoid any issue.

If not, I am sending something similar to the text below;

"To whom it may concern,

I was issued with a parking ticket on 27/2/2023 (received on 06/03/23) for parking at Car park at Pateley Bridge The Lodge, Bewerly park Pateley Bridge/Harrogate North Yorkshire HG3 5BD on 18th December 2022. The car was parked there between 10.45am and 11.07am. I have been charged £100.

I believe that this ticket was issued unfairly. As registered keeper I am not liable for the amount payable because: there was no payment/ticket machine installed in the car park, and the only option was paying by the phone app "Phone and Pay" (didn't work) or by telephone.

The app was downloaded by the driver and then after battling through several app crashes and error messages, since the app did not allow to add any bank card details, and after several attempts, it was decided to leave the car park and the car was parked elsewhere. It was finally parked at Southlands car park, Pateley Bridge HG3 5JX (on the other side of the river) where a parking permit was purchased via the “pay and display machine”.

Just to let you know, there is a Google review from another person who had a similar problem to mine in this car park.
And also you can see the really bad reviews about the phone app "Phone and Pay" (1.1 stars on app store) – These reviews are clearly from other members of the public having the same problems.

For this reason, I look forward to receiving notification within 28 days that the Parking Charge Notice has been cancelled.

Kind Regards,
Registered keeper"

Could you please let me know your thoughts about this?

Regards,

Grizebeck

Use the below

this is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus Trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NTK does not comply with POFA. As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an auto win @ POPLA. Please therefore cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code where you will auto withdraw

Fruitcake

Grizebeck said:

Dont mean to sound harsh but thats a load of rubbish which wont win. Use the below

this is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus Trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NTK does not comply with POFA. As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an auto win @ POPLA. Please therefore cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code where you will auto withdraw

The OP has posted a draft complaint to the landowner, not an appeal to the PPC.

Gentleman

Fruitcake said:

Grizebeck said:

Dont mean to sound harsh but thats a load of rubbish which wont win. Use the below

this is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus Trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NTK does not comply with POFA. As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an auto win @ POPLA. Please therefore cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code where you will auto withdraw

The OP has posted a draft complaint to the landowner, not an appeal to the PPC.

Thanks @Fru@Fruitcake,

Does it mean that the writing looks good?

Grizebeck

Gentleman said:

Fruitcake said:

Grizebeck said:

Dont mean to sound harsh but thats a load of rubbish which wont win. Use the below

this is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus Trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NTK does not comply with POFA. As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an auto win @ POPLA. Please therefore cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code where you will auto withdraw

The OP has posted a draft complaint to the landowner, not an appeal to the PPC.

Thanks @Fru@Fruitcake,

Does it mean that the writing looks good?

Just log the appeal txt given on https://www.ce-service.co.uk and the ticket will be cancelled. 
I would not bother with that complaint as its not required in order to win this

B789

Fruitcake said:
The OP has posted a draft complaint to the landowner, not an appeal to the PPC.

Gentleman said:
Does it mean that the writing looks good?

No. You are writing to the landowner and you need to stress that they should get it cancelled and that they are jointly liable for the actions of their agents should this proceed to court.

Also, do you really want to give away your golden ticket for non-POFA compliance? You must avoid any inference that you were the driver. Re-read your proposed letter and see why it can be inferred that you were the driver.

Save yourself the effort as this doesn't really need a landowner cancellation.

What @Grizebeck has quoted is EXACTLY how you word your appeal to the PPC. No additions or changes.

Grizebeck said:
this is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus Trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NTK does not comply with POFA. As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an auto win @ POPLA. Please therefore cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code where you will auto withdraw.