New Build Estates with Playgrounds - Are they for Residents Only?

diystarter7

GixerKate said:

diystarter7 said:

GixerKate said:

Thanks for taking the time to respond, a quick update for everyone.  Whilst there isn't anything specific in the plans for the intention of the play area, the management company have said that while yes we are paying for everything and will continue to do so, we can't stop the general public from using the play area.

Tbh, we haven't got a problem with younger kids using it, its the older kids being anti-social.  What we can do is police it ourselves and enforce the 'under 12 year olds' rule instead.  As its a small community here we can usually call the kids by their names and we know how old they are.

Really is disappointing though.  You'd think that as the play area is built on the private land, never to be adopted by the council and maintained solely through the residents, you'd think we would have some rights but no.

Hi OP
Thanks for the update
TBH, about you and friends "policing" the area. I'd seek advice about this from your local community police officers as there are potentially many dangers associated with stuff like this and not just from the louts but their guardians as often they too can take very serious offence no matter how polite you are

Therefore, seek advice from local officers and take it from there.

Good luck

Thanks for your post, already ahead of you :-)  The local police have already been on site and they are keen for us to keep doing what we are doing and to keep them updated so that they can continue building the case(s) against the various kids.  The police have offered to start doing sweeps of the estate which they have started doing and generally have been very supportive.

Hi

That is brill news!! Good to see people step ahead in situations like this. I've worked with Joe public and one of our kids worked as a teacher's assistant before learning to become a teacher. The stories re some of the so-called parents that came into school who were not only unreasonable but dangerous bullies were awful. So be careful and dont make yourself a target as some of these troublemakers pick on one person.

Have you checked if you are allowed to put up signs like, "playground for resident and visitors aged up to xx age"?

Good luck

GixerKate

lika_86 said:

GixerKate said:

Tbh, we haven't got a problem with younger kids using it, its the older kids being anti-social.  What we can do is police it ourselves and enforce the 'under 12 year olds' rule instead.  As its a small community here we can usually call the kids by their names and we know how old they are.

How are you going to police it and enforce it yourselves? Go out in your nightie and yell at the teenagers on there drinking a bottle of white lightening? Physically remove them?

Most will be harmlessly mooching around, but what if any of them were to be carrying a weapon? 

We are talking during daylight hours when younger children would be using the park so no, no running around in nighties required.  However, if there were people being anti-social in the park at night then yes a number of the residents will be going to speak to the individuals.

When I was living in Croydon directly opposite a playground we used to speak to them and ask them to keep the noise down and clear up when they leave, most did.  the ones that didn't got reported and dealt with by the police.

diystarter7

Btw, not kidding, but consider self defence training and get away training I think its called, IE where someone gets hold of you and you make one or two moves to get away - carry a personal alrm as well,

I'm sure it wont be needed but just be open minded

bobster2

GixerKate said:

bobster2 said:

GixerKate said:

Tbh, we haven't got a problem with younger kids using it, its the older kids being anti-social.  What we can do is police it ourselves and enforce the 'under 12 year olds' rule instead.  As its a small community here we can usually call the kids by their names and we know how old they are.

Before attempting to "police" this - it would be a good idea to get a clear understanding of the basis on which it can be enforced - i.e. where does this "under 12 only" rule come from?

In the planning documentation and confirmed by the management company.

Yes - but you need to be clear on what is the legal basis for demanding that someone leave the area based on their age.

In a council owned playground there may be byelaws - accompanied by some sanction or penalty when they are broken. But even then a member of the public can't walk up to another member of the public and enforce a byelaw themselves.

So on this privately owned landed - what would be the legal basis for one member the public (not the owner) demanding that another member of the public leave the land? I genuinely don't know!

It could potentially be trespass - if someone is on the land without the owner's permission. But what's the legal basis for someone who is not even the land owner (e.g. you) trying to remove someone from the land?

  

GixerKate

bobster2 said:

GixerKate said:

bobster2 said:

GixerKate said:

Tbh, we haven't got a problem with younger kids using it, its the older kids being anti-social.  What we can do is police it ourselves and enforce the 'under 12 year olds' rule instead.  As its a small community here we can usually call the kids by their names and we know how old they are.

Before attempting to "police" this - it would be a good idea to get a clear understanding of the basis on which it can be enforced - i.e. where does this "under 12 only" rule come from?

In the planning documentation and confirmed by the management company.

Yes - but you need to be clear on what is the legal basis for demanding that someone leave the area based on their age.

In a council owned playground there may be byelaws - accompanied by some sanction or penalty when they are broken. But even then a member of the public can't walk up to another member of the public and enforce a byelaw themselves.

So on this privately owned landed - what would be the legal basis for one member the public (not the owner) demanding that another member of the public leave the land? I genuinely don't know!

It could potentially be trespass - if someone is on the land without the owner's permission. But what's the legal basis for someone who is not even the land owner (e.g. you) trying to remove someone from the land?

  

Good points, will see if I can get some info around this.  For now we've asked the local police and have been told we can ask them to leave if they are being anti-social and if they don't leave and/or escalate their anti-social behaviour then to involve the police.

ReadingTim

GixerKate said:

LOL I'm afraid I wasn't one of the teenagers hanging around on street corners with cider no.  Call me weird but as a teenager I used to spend time with friends and family.

...which is exactly what this lot are doing...!

Abby1984

diystarter7 said:

Btw, not kidding, but consider self defence training and get away training I think its called, IE where someone gets hold of you and you make one or two moves to get away - carry a personal alrm as well,

I'm sure it wont be needed but just be open minded

Quite frankly I think your so called advice is much more dangerous. A quick google of that course (try that before you type/also spellcheck exists) shows how the Human Rights Act 1998 applies to training such as that. So it shouldn’t be used without knowledge of the legal repercussions. 

And what is with all the stereotyping as well? It’s disgusting to see. Welcome to 2023 everyone. 

Postik

I honestly don't think there's much that can be done about this. I admit it would be highly irritating and it's refreshing to see that the police are taking an interest and hopefully they can help sort it out.  I think the residents confronting them is likely just providing them with "entertainment" and won't make the situation any better.

The land is publicly accessible and no amount of "residents only" or "under 12's only" signs are going to make a difference. Aside from that trespass is not a criminal offence. If I setup a tent in your front garden the police can't arrest me for trespass.  There might be some vaugue reason for arrest, such as criminal damage to your lawn or breach of the peace but it would be a bit of a stretch.

TripleH

It might be worth talking to them as adults. Explain that any damage will impact other younger children. By letting them know you have no problem being there as long as they know it is for others to use. Make them feel they are responsible.

They are either going to change their behaviour or carry on as normal so you have little to loose. Plus you could in a friendly manner tell them that they unfortunately become chief suspects if any damage is caused so its in their interest to be responsible?

martindow

Do you think the under 12 years mentioned in the planning is to do with the equipment used in the playground being suitable for that age group rather than an implicit bylaw.

The good news for the OP is that the police are taking poor behaviour by teenagers seriously and I would suggest you follow down that path rather than organising vigilantes as some seem to be suggesting.