Prepayment meters to be charged at same rate as DD

Scot_39

victor2 said:

Marvel1 said:

matelodave said:

Can people not actually understand the principle, It's not that Prepay or Pay on Receipt pay more ,its that those on a DD get a discount.

People who pay on recieipt of their bill effectively get free credit and anyone who pays by other methods get a discount. 

Those who prepay, get less of a discount as there are additional charges to enable prepay to work (including I guess a commission to those outlets that provide meter top-up facilities) Perhaps the answer there is to crank up the standing charge for pre-pay meters to offset the additonal collection charges and then give them the same discount as DD customers on their consumption.

However those who pay by DD quite often pay well in advance and as its by far the cheapest way for the supplier to collect their payments, its those on DD who get the better discount.

TBH if theres no discount advantage in paying by DD then I can't cant see the point as again we'll all be subsidising those who choose not to

Those not paying by DD are subsidising those who were in credit when an energy company collapses.

I thought all energy users are paying for the SoLR process through the standing charge?

The latest Ofgem cap has a lower SofLR allowance - think now £19, was £60 last quarter - IIRC.

Oops sorry signs and 61 not 60

It's in their press releases.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-announces-latest-quarterly-price-cap-update

But the electricity SC still up another 7p. 

Guess all those renewables need to be hooked up somewhere to something ?

Scot_39

EssexHebridean said:

The media are going to dress this up as a good thing aren’t they - when for hundreds of thousands of prepay electricity users it’ll be anything but…then that will be the next “scandal” no doubt. 

Why are they going to complain about not paying an extra £50+VAT - in standing charges - c£31 gas, c£20 electric ?

It's not an equalisation of all costs - just the metering costs AFAIK - Shapps said "cost to receive" not "cost of".

From BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64930953

"Energy Security Secretary Grant Shapps said: "Charging prepayment meter customers more to receive their energy is a tax on some of our most vulnerable - this change will stop that."

EDIT - The Guardian article quotes are admittedly a little less clear on that.

 So perhaps your right to worry.

Scot_39

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Gas is more expensive on pre-pay, bit late for this winter but good news for next.

I doubt this applies to people feeding coin meters or random landlord-installed meters collected by 3rd party companies though.

The SC on gas extra c£39 - and rates too - nearly 5%.

Thats not the case for electric - why the difference ?

Don't Ofgem and govt - think poor people use gas anymore - you know the cheapest fuel normally ?

Scot_39

Alnat1 said:

Sounds unfair that those who choose to pay on receipt of bill will be the only ones paying more.

Is it time to change the system so everyone is charged the same rates no matter how they choose to pay?

Does your supplier support variable DD at cheaper DD rates ?

Do you get paper copies of electric bills - BT charges £3 for a paper copy - and that's to those paying by DD.

God knows if they still allow pay on receipt - and if do - is their is an even higher charge for doing so - to admin receipt of payment etc.

bristolleedsfan

Scot_39 said:

bristolleedsfan said:

Sea_Shell said:

Are there 3 categories of rates at the moment...?

Prepay meters
Pay on receipt of bill

Pay by DD (fixed or variable)


Is the plan to level out all 3 methods?  

4 categories

Prepayment key and card
Smart Pre-Pay ( EDF offer lower night rates than DD for Eco7 )
Pay on receipt of bill

Pay by DD (fixed or variable)

Ofgem don't split the two forms of pre-pay into seperate pricing.

Wonder which one - or mix of ones - EDF use - and are you comparing only rates - or SC - or rates and SC.

You got a link ?

Be interesting to see ?

https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/default/files/government_energy_price_guarantee_prices._standard_variable_deemed_and_welcome._credit_meters.pdf   Direct Debit Cash/Cheque PAYG

+ Scroll down for prepayment rate pricing tariff

MattMattMattUK

Scot_39 said:

EssexHebridean said:

The media are going to dress this up as a good thing aren’t they - when for hundreds of thousands of prepay electricity users it’ll be anything but…then that will be the next “scandal” no doubt. 

Why are they going to complain about not paying an extra £50+VAT - in standing charges - c£31 gas, c£20 electric ?

It's not an equalisation of all costs - just the metering costs AFAIK - Shapps said "cost to receive" not "cost of".

From BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64930953

"Energy Security Secretary Grant Shapps said: "Charging prepayment meter customers more to receive their energy is a tax on some of our most vulnerable - this change will stop that."

EDIT - The Guardian article quotes are admittedly a little less clear on that.

 So perhaps your right to worry.

Likely because their unit rate will also increase, so that unless they use less than 3kWh per day on average they will be worst off. Also as other posters have said Prepayment E7 rates are some of those around and the splits on those are entirely the choice of the suppliers, those splits will likely change if the government starts meddling with billing costs. 

EssexHebridean

Scot_39 said:

EssexHebridean said:

The media are going to dress this up as a good thing aren’t they - when for hundreds of thousands of prepay electricity users it’ll be anything but…then that will be the next “scandal” no doubt. 

Why are they going to complain about not paying an extra £50+VAT - in standing charges - c£31 gas, c£20 electric ?

It's not an equalisation of all costs - just the metering costs AFAIK - Shapps said "cost to receive" not "cost of".

From BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64930953

"Energy Security Secretary Grant Shapps said: "Charging prepayment meter customers more to receive their energy is a tax on some of our most vulnerable - this change will stop that."

EDIT - The Guardian article quotes are admittedly a little less clear on that.

 So perhaps your right to worry.

BiB: (I know Matt has already responded on this - but giving a specific example here:) Because someone's energy bill is not just the standing charge - indeed, for most people, the standing charge is a small part of that bill. take someone on electricity only, on prepay for example. Currently yes, they pay a slightly higher SC, but potentially make a saving every day on the energy they use. Take someone in my region on E7, using the same level and split of electricity roughly as I do for example, with EDF as their supplier. On PP currently they would be paying £601 annually just for the energy used - on DD this rises to £755 - an extra £12 a month on average. The SC in a 31 day month would be £12.10 on DD, £13.68 on PP - so only £1.58 difference. At some times of year the difference would be even more stark - for the last little while I've been using anywhere from 22kWh - 30kWh per day for example, with around 85 - 90% of that on the off peak rate, if the unit rates DO increase that is going to be a huge difference for someone on E7 in the situation quoted.

I've seen quotes suggesting that it is just the SC that they are looking to change, and the BBC article you quote specifically refers to "This will happen by bringing prepayment energy charges in line with customers who pay by direct debit." - energy charges, NOT standing charges. So right now, to me at least, it's about as clear as a large opaque bucket of mud!! 

By the way - it might help you to know that you can multi-quote on here. Having typed the reply to the first post you want to respond to, just hit return a couple of times below that reply, then click back into the  blank space you have created, and then his the quote button on the next post you want to respond to...

MattMattMattUK said:

Scot_39 said:

EssexHebridean said:

The media are going to dress this up as a good thing aren’t they - when for hundreds of thousands of prepay electricity users it’ll be anything but…then that will be the next “scandal” no doubt. 

Why are they going to complain about not paying an extra £50+VAT - in standing charges - c£31 gas, c£20 electric ?

It's not an equalisation of all costs - just the metering costs AFAIK - Shapps said "cost to receive" not "cost of".

From BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64930953

"Energy Security Secretary Grant Shapps said: "Charging prepayment meter customers more to receive their energy is a tax on some of our most vulnerable - this change will stop that."

EDIT - The Guardian article quotes are admittedly a little less clear on that.

 So perhaps your right to worry.

Likely because their unit rate will also increase, so that unless they use less than 3kWh per day on average they will be worst off. Also as other posters have said Prepayment E7 rates are some of those around and the splits on those are entirely the choice of the suppliers, those splits will likely change if the government starts meddling with billing costs. 

...like that - using Matt3's post as an example in this case. It saves producing multiple posts consecutively on the same thread which might risk you getting picked up for post-building. 

MikeyPGT

I'm on pre-payment meters inherited when I moved into a rented flat.  Scottish Power inform me that there is no option for the gas meter to be made smart due to where I live (currently around 90% of what I pay for gas is the standing charge) and that it is not possible for my SMET1 meter to be converted from a prepayment meter to a normal one (about a third of my bill is the standing charge).  I don't really see why I am being penalised for the fact that the energy sector hasn't got its act together.

Mstty

EssexHebridean 

...like that - using Matt3's post as an example in this case. It saves producing multiple posts consecutively on the same thread which might risk you getting picked up for post-building. 

I've heard this mentioned before but can't find it specifically in the forum rules. How someone replies individually to comments or via the multiple quote reply (which some can't do easily on phone) is that really a thing?

Sea_Shell

Mstty said:

EssexHebridean 

...like that - using Matt3's post as an example in this case. It saves producing multiple posts consecutively on the same thread which might risk you getting picked up for post-building. 

I've heard this mentioned before but can't find it specifically in the forum rules. How someone replies individually to comments or via the multiple quote reply (which some can't do easily on phone) is that really a thing?

I've never got the handle on multi quote. ☹️