Letting agency insists on upfront 6 month renewal payment as I am self-employed

apvit

I have been renting for many years and always had 6 months initial contract with further monthly rolling. In November 2022 I moved to a new property and paid 6 months upfront as I recently became self-employed and they say I have not passed their checks though I showed them consistent earnings over many years which are in excess of £100,000/year as I am a medical professional. 6 months fixed term are coming to the end and a bit unexpectedly my letting agency insists on me again paying 6 months upfront and they do not agree to start monthly rolling. They say that if I want to move out before the new 6-month fixed term ends I would be released only on a move in date of a new tenant and I would also be responsible for the landlords re-letting costs of £482 which I cannot find in the tenancy agreement. I do not want to be caught by this and would like to go to monthly rolling. Can I insist/ ask to change the agreement and would anyone have any advice on  what's the right thing for me to do?

The agreeement wording is: Term: For the term of 6 months commencing on 4th November 2022 and thereafter shall continue as a monthly contractual periodic tenancy on the same terms and conditions until terminated by eather party. Payment in advance in cleared funds by equal 6 monthly payment on the 4th day of every 6th month.

propertyrental

my letting agency insists on me again paying 6 months upfront 

What exactly does your contract say the rent is?
Does it quote a rent of £X per month or £Y per 6 months?

I've not seen a contract like that before but it appears ambiguous  The legal issue is whether, if you were to pay only a months rent at the start of month 7, would you be in rent arrears (ie owing 5 months rent)?

Perhaps. If so a S8 G8 Notice could be issued, the first step to eviction for arrears.

On the other hand a "monthly contractual periodic tenancy" where rent is paid 6 monthly is a nonsense, since you could leave within the 6 months.

they do not agree to start monthly rolling. 

but that's exactly what happens when the current fixed term ends, unless you sign a new contract. Indeed, the existing contract specifies " a monthly contractual periodic tenancy " (ie rolling).

 if I want to move out before the new 6-month fixed term ends I would be released only on a move in date of a new tenant and I would also be responsible for the landlords re-letting costs of £482 

This could not be enforced, since there IS no "new 6-month fixed term; The curret contract clearly specifies that

thereafter shall continue as a monthly contractual periodic tenancy

'periodic' = rolling, not fixed term.

Does the existing contract state anywhere what notice period is required in the subsequent contractual periodic? It says: 

until terminated by eather party.

so is it specified anywhere how termination occurs? How much notice?

tacpot12

I agree with propertyrental that the contract is ambigous in respect of payment dates, but it is clear that a monthly periodic tenancy is what will happen if you don't sign a new contract. I would therefore suggest that you write to them to say that you want the tenancy to continue as a periodic tenancy, and ask them what law or contract provision they are relying on to require you to sign a new tenancy agreement or to pay in advance? 

The risk is that they decide to issue a section 21 notice and eventually take you to court. Whether this a problem for you depends on how long you want to stay in the property. The other way to look at this is that (if you paid in advance) it does give you six months more security in your property, but you are then setting a precedent; effectively you are agreeing they can do this again in six months time. 

bouicca21

I wonder if the actual landlord knows what the letting agency are doing?  Bet they are charging them a renewal fee.

propertyrental

tacpot12 said:

I agree with propertyrental that the contract is ambigous in respect of payment dates, but it is clear that a monthly periodic tenancy is what will happen if you don't sign a new contract. I would therefore suggest that you write to them to say that you want the tenancy to continue as a periodic tenancy, and ask them what law or contract provision they are relying on to require you to sign a new tenancy agreement or to pay in advance? 

The risk is that they decide to issue a section 21 notice and eventually take you to court. Whether this a problem for you depends on how long you want to stay in the property. The other way to look at this is that (if you paid in advance) it does give you six months more security in your property, but you are then setting a precedent; effectively you are agreeing they can do this again in six months time. 

Not sure I'd recommend asking that, as a) it will simply lead to an (endless?) exchange of emails (or whatever), and antagonise (perhaps resulting in a S21 as tacpot12 says), and b) the answer is actually clear: they are relying on contract law (though the wording of the contract is poor hence the ambiguity).

For the term of 6 months commencing on 4th November 2022 and thereafter shall continue as a monthly contractual periodic tenancy on the same terms and conditions until terminated by eather party. Payment in advance in cleared funds by equal 6 monthly payment on the 4th day of every 6th month.

Using their logic (and intention) there are actually 3 options:

1) sign a new tenancy agreement (on whatever terms they offer and you're prepared to accept
2) leave at the end of the current fixed term (3/5/23)
3) move automatically to a monthly contractual periodic tenancy (as per the wording of the contract) and pay 6 months in advance (again as per the wording of the contract)

An alternative option would be:
*  to do and say nothing. 
* wait till 4/5/23, when a monthly contractual periodic tenancy will arise automatically
* pay one months rent
* If you then receive a demand for an additional 5 months rent (or any reference to arrears), reply saying the rent is £X per month (assuming that's what your contract says - see my very 1st sentence in my earlier post) and that is what you have paid and will continue to pay.

bouicca21 makes a pertinent point. Do you have the LL's details? If so it might be worth contacting him/her to see if they are aware, and also whether they are actually likely to evict if you pay monthly - something few sensible LLs would do, but which an agent might advocate (they'd  get commission for finding a replacement!)

But not yet - again, don't pre-empt arguments. the fixed term still has 2 months to run.

Though if you don't know the LL's address, you could demand it using Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 section 1

1  Disclosure of landlord’s identity.
(1)If the tenant of premises occupied as a dwelling makes a written request for the landlord’s name and address to—
(a)any person who demands, or the last person who received, rent payable under the tenancy, or
(b)any other person for the time being acting as agent for the landlord, in relation to the tenancy,
that person shall supply the tenant with a written statement of the landlord’s name and address within the period of 21 days beginning with the day on which he receives the request.
(2)A person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to comply with subsection (1) commits a summary offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

theartfullodger

You as tenant are absolutely entitled to insist on e.g. monthly payments of rent (or weekly, or 4-weekly..) - or indeed anything else that is not unlawful...

But there will only be a tenancy if BOTH parties agree on ALL the terms of the tenancy agreement. 

Regarding landlord details, if you don't have them than no rent is due (!) - the quick way to find out who owns the place is spending £3 online with land registry.. see...
https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/

- but beware, the landlord does not have to be the owner (eg there are often "guaranteed rent" schemes/scams run by agents where agent (as tenant ) rents the place from owner (owner as landlord), the agent (as occupant's landlord) rents it out to occupant (as tenant)

theoretica

apvit said:

The agreeement wording is: Term: For the term of 6 months commencing on 4th November 2022 and thereafter shall continue as a monthly contractual periodic tenancy on the same terms and conditions until terminated by eather party. Payment in advance in cleared funds by equal 6 monthly payment on the 4th day of every 6th month.

That looks to me as though you signed up to pay in 6 monthly blocks - but the tenancy is monthly, so if you choose to leave on a month that is not the end of a 6 month group you could do so.

apvit

Thanks to everyone for replying. I keep checking with the agency and they now say that the reason they want 6 months upfront is because I have been self-employed only for 12 months and as such I do not pass their referencing (I did not have a guarantor to start with and offered 6 months upfront pay). They say: I am sorry but until such time as you are in a position to show the referencing agency that you can pass referencing you will need to pay the 6 months in advance. And again they say if I wish to leave earlier I may lose what I've paid or the re-letting will incur fees which are not mentioned in the contract. I admit I do not understand their reasoning. I want to start monthly rolling and I don't want to sign another fixed term. Would prefer to pay monthly but happy to pay 6 months upfront if when I decide to move out the excess will be refunded to me. At this moment I do want to stay in this house and most likely will stay for the following 6 months, but just in case I'd like to fully clarify things and insist on what I can without risking losing this house now.

propertyrental

First of all, well done for coming ere for advice. And feel free to go elsewhere also for objective advice. But do not expect objective, or even accurate advice from the agents.

apvit said:

...I keep checking with the agency and they now say that the reason they want 6 months upfront is because I have been self-employed only for 12 months and as such I do not pass their referencing (I did not have a guarantor to start with and offered 6 months upfront pay).
Well yes, we gathered that from your first post. But so what?
 They say: I am sorry but until such time as you are in a position to show the referencing agency that you can pass referencing you will need to pay the 6 months in advance.
see the advice being offered here. They cannot just impose their internal policy. They have to follow the law.
And again they say if I wish to leave earlier I may lose what I've paid or the re-letting will incur fees which are not mentioned in the contract.
Again they they have to follow the law. They cannot just impose whatever fees they want.
 I admit I do not understand their reasoning. I want to start monthly rolling
So stop communicating and wait for the fixed term to end. 'Monthly rolling is automatic.
and I don't want to sign another fixed term.
Then don't
Would prefer to pay monthly but happy to pay 6 months upfront if when I decide to move out the excess will be refunded to me. Indeed
At this moment I do want to stay in this house and most likely will stay for the following 6 months, but just in case I'd like to fully clarify things and insist on what I can without risking losing this house now.

As I suggested earlier, complaining, demanding your rights, or negotiating, will get you nowhere excet endless back/forth as demonstrated by their latest response!

If you reply again, you will get more of the same and resolve nothing.

Now - please answer the question I asked in my first sentence, in my first post, bove:

What exactly does your contract say the rent is?
Does it quote a rent of £X per month or £Y per 6 months?

propertyrental

Just to clarify (assuming this is England):

theartfullodger said:

You as tenant are absolutely entitled to insist on e.g. monthly payments of rent (or weekly, or 4-weekly..) - or indeed anything else that is not unlawful...
a contractual agreement to pay 6 months in advance is not per se unlawful. Whether it can be enforced in a monthly contractual periodic tenancy is moot. Unless someone here has experience of a similar case, only a court could resolve the question ultimately.

But there will only be a tenancy if BOTH parties agree on ALL the terms of the tenancy agreement. 
Both parties have agreed to the terms when they signed the original tenancy agreement

Regarding landlord details, if you don't have them than no rent is due (!)
No. You are confusing the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 S48 with the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985  S1.
The '87 Act requires an address 'for serving notices on the landlord', but that address can be anywhere in England eg c/o the agent.
The 85 Act requires the LL's actual address, but only if the tenant requests it in wrting from the agent.

apvit

Hi propertyrental, thank you for your input. It says: Rent: £9,000 p6m, subject to any rent increase as per clause 3.6