Why is WhatsApp blocked on my - new - mobile phone? A Kafka-esque situation

Sarahspangles

Well if I was the one who reported my dad/brother as a potential scammer I wouldn’t let on!   A combination of a single or small number of reports plus a sudden flurry of activity from a new number would probably be enough to get the account suspended.  No human will have looked at the messages - in fact I believe they can’t.

br1anst0rm

[Deleted User] said:

Just Google how to logout on the new phone, depends on your phone model which you haven’t mentioned so I can only direct you to Google it for now.

I’m not suggesting two account are not allowed, but in your case somebody reported/blocked you as it appeared that a new number / new account not in your friends contact list messaged pretending to be your despite your old account still being active. 

That is a different scenario to having accounts for a business and personal phone.

It’s up to you now in terms of what to do, but the easiest and quickest way is to logout of WhatsApp on the new phone and commence a transfer of your account from your old phone to new phone. 

WhatsApp aren’t going to give you any more information that they have done about the circumstances. 

Thanks for hanging in there, @[Deleted User].  I appreciate that you're trying to help, and I'm grateful.  But I admit that I am struggling, and I am concerned that we might just end up digging a deeper hole.

I cannot log out of WhatsApp on the new phone if I'm not logged in.  The account which I just recently set up and used briefly, is in effect inaccessible.  When I try to do so, it asks me to confirm the NUMBER, and then says this ACCOUNT cannot use WhatsApp.  Google doesn't help. The handset (if that's relevant) is a Moto G5S.

On the point mentioned earlier about the distinction between the account and the phone number:  if they are indeed separate and not linked, and only the "account" is banned, then

(i) would it be possible to put the "new" SIM card and its O2 number into a different handset and set up another fresh WhatsApp account?  If the number is not banned/blocked, that surely ought to be possible?  But the message described above suggests that it is tin fact the NUMBER which WhatsApp regards as unacceptable;

(ii) it would seem to follow that if I try to transfer my "old" and still functioning WhatsApp account across to a new handset with that O2 number, then WhatsApp will immediately ban and make that old account inaccessible too.  How can I be sure - before I start the process - that I won't end up with no WhatsApp account at all?

As for the final comment above, why will WhatsApp not give a precise and clear explanation of exactly what breach they claim I have committed?  At the moment it's an unsubstantiated accusation.  I appear to have been found guilty of something unspecified, about which (it is being assumed) somebody unidentified complained, at a time/date which is not stated.  And as a result of all these unexplained things for which no evidence has been provided, the account has been shut down!

Sarahspangles

I feel your anger, but remember that WhatsApp is free for personal use, which means you’re not the customer, you’re the product (or at least your data is).  I don’t even know how WhatsApp is monetised, I assume Facebook gain some advantage by controlling Messenger and WhatsApp links used by their site users.  The upshot is that they are not interested in fixing your problem or justifying their actions.

I’d start afresh, assuming you aren’t so peed off you move to a different channel.  You may need to warn your contacts to expect a new connection from you.

[Deleted User]

I cannot log out of WhatsApp on the new phone if I'm not logged in.  The account which I just recently set up and used briefly, is in effect inaccessible.  When I try to do so, it asks me to confirm the NUMBER, and then says this ACCOUNT cannot use WhatsApp.  Google doesn't help. The handset (if that's relevant) is a Moto G5S.

To log out of Whatsapp on your new phone you essentially need to delete all the data with the app and reinstall the app fresh - see the option for Android.

https://www.wikihow.com/Log-Out-of-WhatsApp

(i) would it be possible to put the "new" SIM card and its O2 number into a different handset and set up another fresh WhatsApp account?  If the number is not banned/blocked, that surely ought to be possible?  But the message described above suggests that it is tin fact the NUMBER which WhatsApp regards as unacceptable;

The account associated with that number is banned, hence your old account still working on your old phone. Each account can be associated with one number only - the current combination of account/number is banned but your old account with this new number won't necessarily be banned as per the "you won't be penalised for previous users of a number"

(ii) it would seem to follow that if I try to transfer my "old" and still functioning WhatsApp account across to a new handset with that O2 number, then WhatsApp will immediately ban and make that old account inaccessible too.  How can I be sure - before I start the process - that I won't end up with no WhatsApp account at all?

I can't be 100% sure but I've moved Whatsapp accounts around several phones using the transfer method without any issues.

As for the final comment above, why will WhatsApp not give a precise and clear explanation of exactly what breach they claim I have committed?  At the moment it's an unsubstantiated accusation.  I appear to have been found guilty of something unspecified, about which (it is being assumed) somebody unidentified complained, at a time/date which is not stated.  And as a result of all these unexplained things for which no evidence has been provided, the account has been shut down!

Standard really, if you were the victim of harassment from a Whatsapp user would you expect Whatsapp to tell the harasser all the details? Bear in mind WhatsApp cannot see the messages you sent so they have no idea how bad they were other than that they were reported / blocked / flagged as spam.

Whatsapp have no contractual obligations to even provide you with a service, let alone tell you why they won't.

Worst case you need a new phone number and that's a simple PAC process that takes a day or so if the above method doesn't work but how long are you going to keep the old phone running anyway? At some point, you will need to do something.

You could even PAC your old number across to the new SIM for ease.

Normally when people purchase a new phone, they port all the data over via backup anyway from old to new, looks like you didn't do that which may be because you went from apple to android or vice versa but on the same platform it is really easy to port everything across.

Either way you are in deadlock with Whatsapp so the sooner you realise that and try to skirt around it the sooner you will have WhatsApp up and running on your new phone.

br1anst0rm

Sarahspangles said:

A combination of a single or small number of reports plus a sudden flurry of activity from a new number would probably be enough to get the account suspended.  No human will have looked at the messages - in fact I believe they can’t.

That reinforces the impression I was getting. 

I would not expect anyone to look at the contents of any WhatsApp message.  But I would expect there to be some way of monitoring the number, frequency, time and date or pattern of messaging.  Otherwise how to distinguish normal from abnormaI usage? 

I find it hard to believe that my initial dozen or so messages counts as a "sudden flurry".  I have been unable to establish whether there have been any "reports" or "complaints". 

And the replies to my request for the ban (it seems to be an absolute ban, not a suspension, which I find hard to understand) to be reviewed all seem to be machine-generated auto-text messages.  A case of "computer says no". 

But I still find it surprising and disappointing that there appears to be no human check or scrutiny of any kind - not even when a request is made for a review, or an appeal against a ban.  Who decides?

br1anst0rm

An update, for all those who have kindly joined in this thread-discussion and offered their thoughts.....

I have systematically contacted and checked all those to whom messages were sent about the 'new' WhatsApp account and number.  In fact there were only 6 - not even ten or a dozen.  Five sent replies, which I received.  And NONE sent any report or complaint to WhatsApp suggesting the message might have been fake or an impersonation.

To me this proves two things.  Six messages is not "a flurry" , and certainly not so many as to appear to be the work of a spammer.  And WhatsApp were lying when in response to my query about the "ban" and request for a review, they said they had received "a large number of complaints about the account".  There had been precisely none.

It confirms that there is no evident basis for the ban and no explanation for it. 

It also follows that all those in this thread who suggested or guessed that the ban was prompted by 'many messages in a short time' (= presumed spam) or even one single complaint-report, were off-target:  those assumptions were wrong. 

It is disappointing and frustrating that the ban appears to be totally arbitrary and unjustified.  While WhatsApp may indeed have the power to decide unilaterally to block use of the app, is that acceptable practice?  It is unreasonable that WhatsApp will not explain their decision.  And the dishonesty of the response they did offer is inexcusable.  The whole saga leaves a very sour taste.

So thanks to all those who took the time to comment.  But this experience does suggest that those who tried to defend, explain or justify WhatsApp's actions were mistaken.   As an organisation, and service provider, they are not worthy of respect.  And we, as the would-be users, surely deserve better?

Sarahspangles

As I said before, we’re not the customer.  I’m not sure if WhatsApp is even a ‘service’ since I’m not paying upfront.  So I don’t expect any customer service!  

oldernonethewiser

"And WhatsApp were lying when in response to my query about the "ban" and request for a review, they said they had received "a large number of complaints about the account".  There had been precisely none."

Perhaps someone was spoofing your account and therefore there were a large number of complaints?

br1anst0rm

oldernonethewiser said:

"And WhatsApp were lying when in response to my query about the "ban" and request for a review, they said they had received "a large number of complaints about the account".  There had been precisely none."

Perhaps someone was spoofing your account and therefore there were a large number of complaints?

Perhaps the moon is made of green cheese.  Perhaps pigs can fly.  Perhaps.... perhaps.....

"Perhaps" opens up a whole arena for guesswork and speculation.  Ultimately it is fruitless.  Evidence is what matters.

It ought to be a very simple matter for WhatsApp to provide collateral evidence:  the number of complaints and the timing, if not the actual content.  But then how can they actually identify complaints unless they read them?

Being practical, it seems barely conceivable that within a matter of hours after activating a new WhatsApp account (it was less than 24 hours), there could have been such a deluge of complaints that this justified an absolute ban and the closure of the account.  I know that modern IT can do things in nano-seconds and that bots trawl the net constantly.  But the probability that this particular number, and this particular account, should have been found - and compromised by spoofing - so swiftly after being set up simply beggars belief. 

That's why WhatsApp ought to have sufficient confidence in their decisions to be prepared to substantiate them.  Why would they not want to do so?  How does it benefit their business model (whatever drives it....) to be seen to be taking arbitrary action and making unexplained decisions?

debitcardmayhem

Question how much do you pay for their service? Do you use Facebook and how much do you pay them? Sorry but they are free services rub by the same "meta" company why do they have to justify their decions to you , unless you  are a shareholder. Move on they owe you nothing