Letter received from UKPC on day 57 - not an NTK from what I can see?

akz786

Hi 
I received a windscreen ticket on the 9th January 2023 from UKPC, waited to day 26 and sent the blue template from newbies section via their online portal. 

Forward to today 7th March 2023 makes it day 57 from my count and this letter is more alluding to who the driver was and any further details etc rather than an NTK from what I can read.

Can I send them an appeal back saying they have now missed the 56 day NTK deadline and that I wont be disclosing the driver details? - letter as below:

Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to parking charge reference xxxxxxxxx
To assist us in making a decision regarding your appeal, please confirm the full name and address of the driver to our Appeals Department within seven days of the date of this letter.

Please also provided any supporting evidence in relation to your vehicle being parked onsite on the date in question.
Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 discusses the recovery of unpaid parking charges.
It allows parking operators to hold the registered keeper liable to pay unpaid parking charges if the operator has not been provided the name and a serviceable address of the driver.

This information may be confirmed by submitting another appeal on our website at www.ukpcappeals.co.uk, or by post to the address overleaf. Please ensure that if writing to us by post that you include the parking charge reference number and vehicle registration.

Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on the previous information received.
At this stage a POPLA verification code will be provided.
The parking charge has been placed on hold whilst under appeal and may be settled in full at the current PCN rate of £100.00.
Yours sincerely,

B789

According to POFA, this is the requirements for a NtK:

8(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;

(c)state that a notice to driver relating to the specified period of parking has been given and repeat the information in that notice as required by paragraph 7(2)(b), (c) and (f);

(d)if the unpaid parking charges specified in that notice to driver as required by paragraph 7(2)(c) have been paid in part, specify the amount that remains unpaid, as at a time which is—

(i)specified in the notice to keeper, and

(ii)no later than the end of the day before the day on which the notice is either sent by post or, as the case may be, handed to or left at a current address for service for the keeper (see sub-paragraph (4));

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;

(f)warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

(g)inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;

(h)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made;

(i)specify the date on which the notice is sent (if it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).

(3)The notice must relate only to a single period of parking specified under sub-paragraph (2)(a) (but this does not prevent the giving of separate notices which each specify different parts of a single period of parking).

(4)The notice must be given by—

(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

(7)When the notice is given it must be accompanied by any evidence prescribed under paragraph 10.

(8)In sub-paragraph (2)(g) the reference to arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints includes—

(a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the keeper about the notice or any matter contained in it; and

(b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the keeper to independent adjudication or arbitration.

If it doesn't follow the above and they don't know who the driver is and you haven't told them, they can't transfer liability to the RK.

Umkomaas

Don't respond to their letter.  They will then issue you a POPLA code, at which point you will appeal to POPLA on the basis that no NtK was served (at all) and therefore the keeper cannot be held liable. Easy peasy win.

Coupon-mad

Just ignore that template letter.

Constantly amazed that people keep asking, given it's clearly not a 'Notice to Keeper' (postal PCN) and you want them to give up or issue a POPLA Code, which that letter says they will do next. Bring it on...

Fruitcake

Do keep the letter and include it in your PoPLA appeal to prove to the assessor that no NTK had been sent by the date required in order to hold a keeper liable in accordance with para 8 of the PoFA.

akz786

Thanks for all replies and advice guys, really appreciate the fast responses! 

I will wait for the imminent POPLA code…

  

Coupon-mad

Just as likely an early cancellation, but do tell us!

akz786

So I received a letter today stating I have an option to pay (hahaha) or of course POPLA and they have given a POPLA code also.
What do I need to write in my appeal? my main point is no NTK was received at all, do I also need to write any statement as to why I was parked there etc?
In the newbies section it mention No Keeper liability, do I tag that somewhere in my response back to them?

Thanks
A

Fruitcake

Use all the appeal points available to you at PoPLA that you will find in the third post of the NEWBIES.

No NTK and therefore no keeper liability should be your point 1. Include the letter from your first post that proves no NTK was received by day 57 in your appeal. Highlight the date of the alleged event and the date of the letter.

Please show us your draft appeal before you submit it.

B789

Also, have read of the POPLA appeals thread stickied right at the top of the forum to get an idea of how the POPLA assessors come to their decisions.

akz786

I was going to re-use this letter (3rd post down this link) which was a successful win a while back -> https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71383972#Comment_71383972

its rather long and cannot be pasted here due to character restrictions and missing web links for the templates so not sure how to get those back?