Stuck in non-yellow zone of junction. Move off when red?

SiliconChip

Dandytf said:

Where was OP when the light changed to Amber.

It seems blindingly obvious from the OP's post at 2:39PM that they were stopped after the traffic light white line and before the yellow box - as shown by the red box that the OP has drawn on the photo. It was actually already pretty clear from the description given in the first post so I'm not sure why you are confused about it.

For what it's worth I would have done exactly the same as the OP did in that situation, although I might not have proceeded past the white line until I could see that the exit from the yellow box was clear (perhaps this would have risked someone sneaking ahead from another lane).

Car_54

daveyjp said:

You stay at the traffic light stop line.

Highway code para below.

176

You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right. If the traffic lights are not working, treat the situation as you would an unmarked junction and proceed with great care.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36

The HC is obviously best practice. But the law only prohibits crossing the line - no requirement for the junction to be clear.

Car_54

Ermia said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Was the OP's exit from the yellow box prevented by stationary vehicles?

Looking at picture two couldn't they have proceeded while the lights were still green, and exited the yellow box behind the Honda civic?

(I think if I'd been the OP I would probably have done that - taking the risk of stopping on the pelican crossing - or I would have stayed behind the stop line on green.  I don't think I'd have ventured into "no man's" land.)

Yes, if I had proceeded while the light was still green, I could have surely gotten passed the yellow junction, but I believed my vehicle would have blocked the pedestrian crossing. (See the second photo in the first post). I think that's actually a more dangerous thing and more likely to be fined.

I admit it's best to just not enter the junction if it's not clear, and I try to practice that from now on irrespective of the pressure from other drivers.

Nonetheless, sometimes these situations happen, I try to predict the traffic and the prediction goes wrong and I get stuck in the middle of the junction. In those situations, it's good to know what is the safest action. This was the main purpose of this post.

Ermia said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Was the OP's exit from the yellow box prevented by stationary vehicles?

Looking at picture two couldn't they have proceeded while the lights were still green, and exited the yellow box behind the Honda civic?

(I think if I'd been the OP I would probably have done that - taking the risk of stopping on the pelican crossing - or I would have stayed behind the stop line on green.  I don't think I'd have ventured into "no man's" land.)

Yes, if I had proceeded while the light was still green, I could have surely gotten passed the yellow junction, but I believed my vehicle would have blocked the pedestrian crossing. (See the second photo in the first post). I think that's actually a more dangerous thing and more likely to be fined.

I admit it's best to just not enter the junction if it's not clear, and I try to practice that from now on irrespective of the pressure from other drivers.

Nonetheless, sometimes these situations happen, I try to predict the traffic and the prediction goes wrong and I get stuck in the middle of the junction. In those situations, it's good to know what is the safest action. This was the main purpose of this post.

OP, what pedestrian crossing?

diystarter7

Hi

Reading this thread reminds of the dread of yellow boxes and even the best drivers can get caught out, thankfully not yet

The other thing is I keep on forgetting that it was only london that had cctv cams monitoring most of these and not the rest of the uk and the cardiff i think not sure if other places do that now. I recall woring about the rea of the car hanging slightly over the the yellow box in Brum years as the car in front putlled up a good cars lenght behind the other -

I hate driving now and rarely venture out of our area plus 10 miles unless going to the beach in kent etc

Have a look on Google maps to see if you can see any cams but imo i think you are good



Thanks

Ermia

Car_54 said:

Ermia said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Was the OP's exit from the yellow box prevented by stationary vehicles?

Looking at picture two couldn't they have proceeded while the lights were still green, and exited the yellow box behind the Honda civic?

(I think if I'd been the OP I would probably have done that - taking the risk of stopping on the pelican crossing - or I would have stayed behind the stop line on green.  I don't think I'd have ventured into "no man's" land.)

Yes, if I had proceeded while the light was still green, I could have surely gotten passed the yellow junction, but I believed my vehicle would have blocked the pedestrian crossing. (See the second photo in the first post). I think that's actually a more dangerous thing and more likely to be fined.

I admit it's best to just not enter the junction if it's not clear, and I try to practice that from now on irrespective of the pressure from other drivers.

Nonetheless, sometimes these situations happen, I try to predict the traffic and the prediction goes wrong and I get stuck in the middle of the junction. In those situations, it's good to know what is the safest action. This was the main purpose of this post.

OP, what pedestrian crossing?

This one:

Goudy

I recognise that junction and driven it many times.
There is a gap between the traffic lights and yellow box and though it's not ideal to stop in that gap, there is nothing there to stop you. It is a "open" part of the road.

When the lights change to green it's not always apparent the road beyond the yellow box is clear if you are third or fourth in the queue at the lights, particularly with traffic still queuing to enter from the left who have also crossed the traffic light line without a clear exit.

The traffic from the left often swing around and double stack until the bus lane starts further up the road, so there are times you think the right lane is clear beyond the junction only to find vehicles from the left have swung out and double stacked which blocks your exit.

By stopping where you did you have more than likely saved yourself a yellow box fine.
Hammersmith have been raking in close to £7 million a year via yellow box fines and have Londons top yellow box for fines out of all boroughs. (on the Talgarth Road).

You have also kept pedestrian crossing clear and made it possible for them to cross more safely.

Of course you could have waited behind the light at the lights, that would also have had the same result but it's not very "London".
Traffic in London these days only seems to move if vehicles fill the gaps and are instantly ready to fill the next gap.
(I know many will dispute this but traffic in London is soley managed by cameras, which aren't everywhere. The bits in between cameras are like the wild west)

A busy times of day that junction can really back up and you could easily be sat behind the traffic light line for repeated light changes while traffic from the left keep filling the exit as you're not ready to.

I know it's not very Highway Code, but it's how things work around here.