Stuck in non-yellow zone of junction. Move off when red?

Ermia

Hi

A few days ago I was reached this three-way junction:

It was green, so I decided to get past the lights and stopped in the area between the stop light line and the yellow junction:

However, the other side of the yellow box did not get clear, and the light got red:

The other side of the yellow box was still not clear, and soon some cars started to cross:

Now here is my [first] question: when no other cars are crossing my path, and the lights are RED, but I have stopped AFTER the light’s line, shall I have moved to the other side of the yellow box?

I wasn’t sure so I did not. I waited until the light got green:

And then I crossed the rest of the junction.

The other question is: could I get an FPN or points in my license for staying in (a relatively safe corner) of the junction? It’s possibly caught on the council camera that monitors the yellow box, and even though I wasn’t in the yellow box, they could fine me for crossing the junction?

I’m mainly worried about FPNs and points, don’t care about PCNs

Goudy

You should wait for the green light as it's possible the pedestrian crossing has gone green "person" and you would put any pedestrian about to cross at risk if you didn't wait.

There are plenty of cameras on yellow box junctions and on red lights, but if they haven't an image of you stopped in the box or crossing the line on red, they can't fine you.

You did the right thing, though many others wouldn't and then moan they got fined!

cymruchris

If you've not entered the yellow box - you can't be fined for it. I wouldn't proceed until the light was green again.

TadleyBaggie

As long as you didn't move over the stop line when the light is red, there should be no danger of a red light offence. Crossing the junction when then the light is red however, might be construed as careless or dangerous driving.

Goudy

If you are really worried about fines, try searching yellow box junction fines for that location/junction.

I think I recognise it as Shepherds Bush Road and Brook Green.

daveyjp

The solid white line at the lights is a stop line and even when lights are on green you should only pass once the route ahead is clear, or you intend to turn right.

Ermia

Thanks, I think I got the answer, but just to clarify, the question is specifically about stopping here:

It’s after the stop lights and before the junction. I stayed one full cycle there (Green, Red, Green), and I was asking if I could be fined for that. It can’t be for stop light or yellow box (because I did not violate any of those) but someone could argue I shouldn’t have been stuck the junction at all even if I’m not in the yellow box area) ?!


On a separate note, what is the best practice for this junction? What shall I do next time? Would you get past the stop line and stop in this position if the yellow box is not clear, or would you just stop before the stop line unless the entire junction is clear? 

Obviously the yellow box is one car’s length, but the entire junction (including the area I marked in the photo) is nearly 3-4 car’s length, so if someone wants to be conservative and only pass the stop line of the whole junction is clear, then only 2-3 cars can pass this junction at each round of green light.

daveyjp

You stay at the traffic light stop line.

Highway code para below.

176

You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right. If the traffic lights are not working, treat the situation as you would an unmarked junction and proceed with great care.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36

Manxman_in_exile

Was the OP's exit from the yellow box prevented by stationary vehicles?

Looking at picture two couldn't they have proceeded while the lights were still green, and exited the yellow box behind the Honda civic?

(I think if I'd been the OP I would probably have done that - taking the risk of stopping on the pelican crossing - or I would have stayed behind the stop line on green.  I don't think I'd have ventured into "no man's" land.)

Ermia

Manxman_in_exile said:

Was the OP's exit from the yellow box prevented by stationary vehicles?

Looking at picture two couldn't they have proceeded while the lights were still green, and exited the yellow box behind the Honda civic?

(I think if I'd been the OP I would probably have done that - taking the risk of stopping on the pelican crossing - or I would have stayed behind the stop line on green.  I don't think I'd have ventured into "no man's" land.)

Yes, if I had proceeded while the light was still green, I could have surely gotten passed the yellow junction, but I believed my vehicle would have blocked the pedestrian crossing. (See the second photo in the first post). I think that's actually a more dangerous thing and more likely to be fined.

I admit it's best to just not enter the junction if it's not clear, and I try to practice that from now on irrespective of the pressure from other drivers.

Nonetheless, sometimes these situations happen, I try to predict the traffic and the prediction goes wrong and I get stuck in the middle of the junction. In those situations, it's good to know what is the safest action. This was the main purpose of this post.

Dandytf

Where was OP when the light changed to Amber.