forced pre-payment meter ban

jbond

MattMattMattUK said:

That is not the court backlog, that is how long energy companies attempt to engage with non-payers before they take the final step of beginning to obtaining a warrant or remote switching a smart meter to pre-payment. When they go to court it is typically another six months after the end of that process, so 30 months of the customer refusing to pay or engage with the supplier before a warrant is finally issued.

Sounds like you're quite knowledgeable with all this?!
However, I'm not sure about this. Depending on energy usage of course, people could end up in serious debt (£1000+), or whatever.  Can't believe energy firms wait this long tbh.  But then, I'm not an expert here, unlike you by the sounds of it?!

tifo

Mobtr said:

For a lot of companies installing a prepayment meter on a warrant was a very very last resort and only done if a customer didn’t pay & refused to engage.

Several letters, possibly phone calls, texts and site visits would be done first and if no response then a warrant would be sought. This would be over a period of several weeks, months even, as a pp meter wouldn’t be installed just because you haven’t paid your latest bill.

Letters are also sent advising a warrant is being applied for & the court the company has applied to Yes, mistakes are made, but if a customer refuses to engage, how is the company to know they are ‘vulnerable’.

All a customer needs to do is contact their supplier to discuss their balance & set up an affordable arrangement to pay or if they can’t pay, get advice on what else can be done, charities, funds etc. 

"For a lot of companies installing a prepayment meter on a warrant was a very very last resort and only done if a customer didn’t pay & refused to engage".

This is not my experience. I had BG do this at the end of 2019 when from end of 2018 and all of 2019 I had several medical conditions (ongoing) which meant I could not work and fell behind with bills. Despite sending medical evidence to BG and being on the priority register and constantly engaging with them for a payment arrangement they did not listen to anything or make an affordable arrangement. Like my electricity supplier, they gave a figure to pay and if not, boom, prepayment meter.

"Letters are also sent advising a warrant is being applied for & the court the company has applied to". I didn't get any letters or court form, the first I knew was when they sent me a letter for the changeover. I queried the court warrant and they said it must've got lost in the post and to ask royal mail (for something I did not receive 2 months earlier).

"All a customer needs to do is contact their supplier to discuss their balance & set up an affordable arrangement to pay". This doesn't work, they do what they want. They ask for a sum, if not, tough.

EssexHebridean

Mobtr said:

‘Customer refuses to pay energy bill for 2 years so energy company install a pp meter’ is not as good a story as ‘ evil energy company forces entry to install pp meter’
@EssexHebridean  good luck with the gym this year - enjoy seeing how your doing, hope you beat last year 😀

It really isn't, is it! In almost all the reported cases there have been enormous loopholes if only people thought about them a little more critically!
And thank you - I'm not off to the best of starts but visits will ramp up as the nights get lighter! (probably! )

jbond said:

MattMattMattUK said:

That is not the court backlog, that is how long energy companies attempt to engage with non-payers before they take the final step of beginning to obtaining a warrant or remote switching a smart meter to pre-payment. When they go to court it is typically another six months after the end of that process, so 30 months of the customer refusing to pay or engage with the supplier before a warrant is finally issued.

Sounds like you're quite knowledgeable with all this?!
However, I'm not sure about this. Depending on energy usage of course, people could end up in serious debt (£1000+), or whatever.  Can't believe energy firms wait this long tbh.  But then, I'm not an expert here, unlike you by the sounds of it?!

Matt is indeed one of our more knowledgeable posters on the subject, but it's not hard to separate out at least some of the facts from the fiction on this one - indeed it's been discussed at here in lengthy detail numerous times each and every time another horror story about people being switched "without notice" to prepayment.  there is some interesting stuff from Ofgem on the subject of how customers should be supported here although in the light of more recent news stories it does have to perhaps be questioned how robust their review was allowing that apparently British Gas had no significant issues with the way they handled things! https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-completes-review-how-suppliers-support-customers-payment-difficulty

MattMattMattUK

jbond said:

MattMattMattUK said:

That is not the court backlog, that is how long energy companies attempt to engage with non-payers before they take the final step of beginning to obtaining a warrant or remote switching a smart meter to pre-payment. When they go to court it is typically another six months after the end of that process, so 30 months of the customer refusing to pay or engage with the supplier before a warrant is finally issued.

Sounds like you're quite knowledgeable with all this?!
However, I'm not sure about this. Depending on energy usage of course, people could end up in serious debt (£1000+), or whatever.  Can't believe energy firms wait this long tbh.  But then, I'm not an expert here, unlike you by the sounds of it?!

Some people are ending up in serious debt, several thousands of pounds is not uncommon, sometimes breaking into tens, which is why the energy companies have to act. I have listened to a radio article about it where the were talking about it rationally, about why energy companies actually go down this route and it really is only a last resort in a situation where a customer not only does not pay their bills but also refuses to engage with the energy supplier. I am not an expert, but I do make an effort to keep myself informed. 

diystarter7

tifo said:

Mobtr said:

For a lot of companies installing a prepayment meter on a warrant was a very very last resort and only done if a customer didn’t pay & refused to engage.

Several letters, possibly phone calls, texts and site visits would be done first and if no response then a warrant would be sought. This would be over a period of several weeks, months even, as a pp meter wouldn’t be installed just because you haven’t paid your latest bill.

Letters are also sent advising a warrant is being applied for & the court the company has applied to Yes, mistakes are made, but if a customer refuses to engage, how is the company to know they are ‘vulnerable’.

All a customer needs to do is contact their supplier to discuss their balance & set up an affordable arrangement to pay or if they can’t pay, get advice on what else can be done, charities, funds etc. 

"For a lot of companies installing a prepayment meter on a warrant was a very very last resort and only done if a customer didn’t pay & refused to engage".

This is not my experience. I had BG do this at the end of 2019 when from end of 2018 and all of 2019 I had several medical conditions (ongoing) which meant I could not work and fell behind with bills. Despite sending medical evidence to BG and being on the priority register and constantly engaging with them for a payment arrangement they did not listen to anything or make an affordable arrangement. Like my electricity supplier, they gave a figure to pay and if not, boom, prepayment meter.

"Letters are also sent advising a warrant is being applied for & the court the company has applied to". I didn't get any letters or court form, the first I knew was when they sent me a letter for the changeover. I queried the court warrant and they said it must've got lost in the post and to ask royal mail (for something I did not receive 2 months earlier).

"All a customer needs to do is contact their supplier to discuss their balance & set up an affordable arrangement to pay". This doesn't work, they do what they want. They ask for a sum, if not, tough.

Hi

Many thanks for sharing the other side and the facts as they are.

I agree with the fact that media does hype but you are a good exmaple of why the new rules were brought in place and there was a definte need to clip the suppliers wings, Therefore, media hype or not, the facts were there to enforce the changes for the better regardless of what a few people are implying here.

Here is the evidence that it was not all hype by the media

From the link below

After concerns were raised about the sharp rise in companies seeking warrants to enter people’s homes to forcibly install prepayment meters, Mr Shapps wrote to energy bosses insisting they revise their practices and improve their action to support vulnerable households, to make sure prepayment meters being installed is a genuine last resort. As part of this, he asked all suppliers to set out what they are doing to support their customers, how many warrants they have each sought, and plans to redress any wrongdoing.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/energy-companies-halt-forced-installation-of-prepayment-meters#:~:text=Energy suppliers agree to stop,calls from the Energy Secretary.&text=Following Energy Security Secretary Grant,meters in vulnerable customers' homes.


Thanks

brewerdave

tifo said:

Mobtr said:

For a lot of companies installing a prepayment meter on a warrant was a very very last resort and only done if a customer didn’t pay & refused to engage.

Several letters, possibly phone calls, texts and site visits would be done first and if no response then a warrant would be sought. This would be over a period of several weeks, months even, as a pp meter wouldn’t be installed just because you haven’t paid your latest bill.

Letters are also sent advising a warrant is being applied for & the court the company has applied to Yes, mistakes are made, but if a customer refuses to engage, how is the company to know they are ‘vulnerable’.

All a customer needs to do is contact their supplier to discuss their balance & set up an affordable arrangement to pay or if they can’t pay, get advice on what else can be done, charities, funds etc. 

"All a customer needs to do is contact their supplier to discuss their balance & set up an affordable arrangement to pay". This doesn't work, they do what they want. They ask for a sum, if not, tough.

Some of the stories I've read ,suggest that the affordable repayment option offered by in debt customers, are frequently less than their actual usage - in other words they are going to continue to accumulate debt !

jbond

diystarter7 said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/energy-companies-halt-forced-installation-of-prepayment-meters#:~:text=Energy suppliers agree to stop,calls from the Energy Secretary.&text=Following Energy Security Secretary Grant,meters in vulnerable customers' homes.


Thanks

Don't think I'd seen this article, and apart from the line "Just this week, Lord Justice Edis issued directions to magistrates courts to stop approving warrants to force-fit prepayment meters grinding the practice to a firm halt.", which I think I've seen in other articles, it does make it clear on several occasions that the temporary halt is only for 'vulnerable' customers.  From other articles it definitely seemed that it was for all customers, which tbh would probably have been the easiest approach to temporarily take, given that energy firms won't necessarily be aware of who is and isn't vulnerable, especially given the British Gas example above, where it seems they weren't helpful at all, and just played by their own rules, and f*ck the customer essentially.

diystarter7

jbond said:

diystarter7 said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/energy-companies-halt-forced-installation-of-prepayment-meters#:~:text=Energy suppliers agree to stop,calls from the Energy Secretary.&text=Following Energy Security Secretary Grant,meters in vulnerable customers' homes.


Thanks

Don't think I'd seen this article, and apart from the line "Just this week, Lord Justice Edis issued directions to magistrates courts to stop approving warrants to force-fit prepayment meters grinding the practice to a firm halt.", which I think I've seen in other articles, it does make it clear on several occasions that the temporary halt is only for 'vulnerable' customers.  From other articles it definitely seemed that it was for all customers, which tbh would probably have been the easiest approach to temporarily take, given that energy firms won't necessarily be aware of who is and isn't vulnerable, especially given the British Gas example above, where it seems they weren't helpful at all, and just played by their own rules, and f*ck the customer essentially.

Hi

With this in the news and should you ever be in a poationn you were before, contact your MP. I'm no fan of most of these freelaoders but they will help as it will make them look good.

Hopefully the new rules will work a lot better for those that are i genuie trouble 

Good luck

EssexHebridean

jbond said:

diystarter7 said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/energy-companies-halt-forced-installation-of-prepayment-meters#:~:text=Energy suppliers agree to stop,calls from the Energy Secretary.&text=Following Energy Security Secretary Grant,meters in vulnerable customers' homes.


Thanks

Don't think I'd seen this article, and apart from the line "Just this week, Lord Justice Edis issued directions to magistrates courts to stop approving warrants to force-fit prepayment meters grinding the practice to a firm halt.", which I think I've seen in other articles, it does make it clear on several occasions that the temporary halt is only for 'vulnerable' customers.  From other articles it definitely seemed that it was for all customers, which tbh would probably have been the easiest approach to temporarily take, given that energy firms won't necessarily be aware of who is and isn't vulnerable, especially given the British Gas example above, where it seems they weren't helpful at all, and just played by their own rules, and f*ck the customer essentially.

This is where the priority Services register comes in, of course. One of the first things we often do here when a poster appears with an issue having identified themselves as elderly, disabled or with other potential vulnerabilities is to make them aware of the PSR. That is at least a good starting point for the suppliers to be able to know whether someone should be considered vulnerable. Inevitably there are a subset of those who should be registered however who will not be simply because their condition makes them less inclined to engage - and those are also those most likely to fall through the net, but it is at least a start. 

t0rt0ise

brewerdave said:

tifo said:

Mobtr said:

For a lot of companies installing a prepayment meter on a warrant was a very very last resort and only done if a customer didn’t pay & refused to engage.

Several letters, possibly phone calls, texts and site visits would be done first and if no response then a warrant would be sought. This would be over a period of several weeks, months even, as a pp meter wouldn’t be installed just because you haven’t paid your latest bill.

Letters are also sent advising a warrant is being applied for & the court the company has applied to Yes, mistakes are made, but if a customer refuses to engage, how is the company to know they are ‘vulnerable’.

All a customer needs to do is contact their supplier to discuss their balance & set up an affordable arrangement to pay or if they can’t pay, get advice on what else can be done, charities, funds etc. 

"All a customer needs to do is contact their supplier to discuss their balance & set up an affordable arrangement to pay". This doesn't work, they do what they want. They ask for a sum, if not, tough.

Some of the stories I've read ,suggest that the affordable repayment option offered by in debt customers, are frequently less than their actual usage - in other words they are going to continue to accumulate debt !

I've never understood how any supplier thinks that it's possible for someone in debt to come to a payment arrangement. If they could pay enough to cover use going forward they wouldn't have got into debt in the first place. Never mind them having to pay extra to pay off the debt. That's why the debtor doesn't bother to 'engage' with the supplier. There's no point. They can't pay. The prepayment meter is the only way the supplier will get paid and the customer will suffer hardship of one sort or another going forward. It's ever been thus. For the government to only just realise this is ridiculous.