forced pre-payment meter ban

jbond

Hi, I'm aware (as I'm sure many of you here are), that there's been a ban since Feb on forced utlility pre-payment meter installs (both gas and elec), mainly due to the antics of British Gas.  What doesn't seem clear is, whether this ban covers all customers or just 'vulnerable' ones?  Some articles I've read, seem to suggest it's for all, yet others seem to be saying it's just for 'vulnerable' customers, where 'vulnerable' covers many possibilities, inc anyone over 65 whether or not they have medical conditions.
Does this mean that the energy firms can't apply for warrants at the moment, or they can, but the applications won't get processed until at least the end of this month, when the ban is supposed to end?

Anybody shed any light on this?

Scot_39

I suspect if theres a restriction - edit "over and above the level of debt and not engaging to repay somehow " -  its in part going to be based on pretty similar rules to the current - and probably similar to those for for the suppliers Priority Services Register - so age, disability, young children etc.

This is EOn Next's blog list

"You can register for the Priority Services Register if you meet one of the following:

• Have reached your state pension age.
• Are disabled or have a long-term medical condition.
• Have a hearing or sight condition.
• Have a mental health condition.
• Are pregnant or have children under 5.
• Have extra communication needs (such as if you don’t speak or read English well).

There can also be temporary circumstances that can sometimes mean you require extra support for a limited period. This can include pregnancy, having children under 5 or recovering from an injury."

Not sure about the scope - or duration - of current iirc temporary ban - edit "but think is probably blanket".

This Ofgem note says its a pause - to 31st Mar 2023.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/energy-regulator-outlines-next-steps-forced-prepayment-meter-ppm-installations

I suspect it is never going to be permanent.

Business just doesn't operate that way - they are not charities.

But the situation were they were applying for dozens daily and they were just being almost waived through by the courts - according to some reports - I suspect will definitely change - for ever.

Even if that means it costs the firms - i.e. the majority of customers who pay  - more.

It certainly looks as the supposed chain of protections - internal and external to companies - were failing.

So I suspect - whether morally wright or wrong is another issue - some people - in excessive debt and not engaging / making effort to repay - who are otherwise not deemed vulnerable / protected in some way - may eventually be back at forced switchover situation.

MattMattMattUK

jbond said:

Hi, I'm aware (as I'm sure many of you here are), that there's been a ban since Feb on forced utlility pre-payment meter installs (both gas and elec), mainly due to the antics of British Gas.  What doesn't seem clear is, whether this ban covers all customers or just 'vulnerable' ones?  Some articles I've read, seem to suggest it's for all, yet others seem to be saying it's just for 'vulnerable' customers, where 'vulnerable' covers many possibilities, inc anyone over 65 whether or not they have medical conditions.
Does this mean that the energy firms can't apply for warrants at the moment, or they can, but the applications won't get processed until at least the end of this month, when the ban is supposed to end?

Anybody shed any light on this?

There is no actual ban, it is a voluntary moratorium. They are currently not forcing installation of prepayment meters, customers who want them can still have them, but they will not switch over a smart meter remotely or used forced entry to fit one. 

They still have hundreds, perhaps thousands of valid warrants and will be able to obtain more fairly quickly once the deadline is passed. It appears unlikely that being on the Priority Seevices Register will be a get out of jail free card for customers, but it will mean those people's cases are reviewed in a little more detail before a warrant is obtained.

Ultimately prepayment meters need to start being fitted again soon, they are not fitted just because someone is in debt, but only when the customer refuses to engage with the energy supplier, effectively refusing to pay or discuss paying, which is of course an unsustainable position and so prepayment meters are the last resort.

Mobtr

For a lot of companies installing a prepayment meter on a warrant was a very very last resort and only done if a customer didn’t pay & refused to engage. 

Several letters, possibly phone calls, texts and site visits would be done first and if no response then a warrant would be sought. This would be over a period of several weeks, months even, as a pp meter wouldn’t be installed just because you haven’t paid your latest bill. 

Letters are also sent advising a warrant is being applied for & the court the company has applied to Yes, mistakes are made, but if a customer refuses to engage, how is the company to know they are ‘vulnerable’. 

All a customer needs to do is contact their supplier to discuss their balance & set up an affordable arrangement to pay or if they can’t pay, get advice on what else can be done, charities, funds etc. 

Why are you wanting to know this, are you not paying your bills? 

MattMattMattUK

Mobtr said:

For a lot of companies installing a prepayment meter on a warrant was a very very last resort and only done if a customer didn’t pay & refused to engage. 

Several letters, possibly phone calls, texts and site visits would be done first and if no response then a warrant would be sought. This would be over a period of several weeks, months even, as a pp meter wouldn’t be installed just because you haven’t paid your latest bill. 

Letters are also sent advising a warrant is being applied for & the court the company has applied to Yes, mistakes are made, but if a customer refuses to engage, how is the company to know they are ‘vulnerable’. 

All a customer needs to do is contact their supplier to discuss their balance & set up an affordable arrangement to pay or if they can’t pay, get advice on what else can be done, charities, funds etc. 

Why are you wanting to know this, are you not paying your bills? 

When they were talking about this on the news it was explained that the average time from non-payment of first bill to applying for a warrant was over two years. Once they went down the final process it still took more than six months of letters, emails, phone calls and one or more attempted visits, including notification of the court date and the opportunity to defend that. This is not something that happens in a few weeks but requires a customer to refuse to pay and refuse to engage for more than two years. On that basis I really cannot see that those people should not have prepayment meters fitted.

Mobtr

Yes, I was being a bit conservative when I said weeks, months. I just wanted to get it across that it’s not a quick, ‘you haven’t paid your latest bill so we’re fitting a pp meter’ process. 

jbond

MattMattMattUK said:

There is no actual ban, it is a voluntary moratorium. They are currently not forcing installation of prepayment meters, customers who want them can still have them, but they will not switch over a smart meter remotely or used forced entry to fit one. 

From what I recall reading, a top judge Edis(?) or something has/had demanded that courts stop signing off these warrant apps since early Feb I think.  Call it what you want, until the end of Mar, warrant apps are not being given the go-ahead.

jbond

When they were talking about this on the news it was explained that the average time from non-payment of first bill to applying for a warrant was over two years. Once they went down the final process it still took more than six months of letters, emails, phone calls and one or more attempted visits, including notification of the court date and the opportunity to defend that. This is not something that happens in a few weeks but requires a customer to refuse to pay and refuse to engage for more than two years. On that basis I really cannot see that those people should not have prepayment meters fitted.

Wow!  I knew/know that the courts are very backlogged right now (both criminal and civil), but two years?!
I don't see the news much, just what I see online, so must have missed this?

MattMattMattUK

jbond said:

When they were talking about this on the news it was explained that the average time from non-payment of first bill to applying for a warrant was over two years. Once they went down the final process it still took more than six months of letters, emails, phone calls and one or more attempted visits, including notification of the court date and the opportunity to defend that. This is not something that happens in a few weeks but requires a customer to refuse to pay and refuse to engage for more than two years. On that basis I really cannot see that those people should not have prepayment meters fitted.

Wow!  I knew/know that the courts are very backlogged right now (both criminal and civil), but two years?!
I don't see the news much, just what I see online, so must have missed this?

That is not the court backlog, that is how long energy companies attempt to engage with non-payers before they take the final step of beginning to obtaining a warrant or remote switching a smart meter to pre-payment. When they go to court it is typically another six months after the end of that process, so 30 months of the customer refusing to pay or engage with the supplier before a warrant is finally issued.

EssexHebridean

MattMattMattUK said:

jbond said:

When they were talking about this on the news it was explained that the average time from non-payment of first bill to applying for a warrant was over two years. Once they went down the final process it still took more than six months of letters, emails, phone calls and one or more attempted visits, including notification of the court date and the opportunity to defend that. This is not something that happens in a few weeks but requires a customer to refuse to pay and refuse to engage for more than two years. On that basis I really cannot see that those people should not have prepayment meters fitted.

Wow!  I knew/know that the courts are very backlogged right now (both criminal and civil), but two years?!
I don't see the news much, just what I see online, so must have missed this?

That is not the court backlog, that is how long energy companies attempt to engage with non-payers before they take the final step of beginning to obtaining a warrant or remote switching a smart meter to pre-payment. When they go to court it is typically another six months after the end of that process, so 30 months of the customer refusing to pay or engage with the supplier before a warrant is finally issued.

Yes - this! The  media have dressed this as though it is a case where someone misses a payment and BANG - next thing they know their meter has been remotely switched to Prepay and they're in the dark if they can't trot down to their local One-Stop for a top up - but in fact the process is lengthy, the customer is in almost all cases given repeated warnings about what might happen, and in any event if the meter can be switched remotely it can also be topped up in most cases I believe online. In spite of what the likes of the BBC would have us believe, this is not a quick process, and in almost all cases it's really difficult to really believe that the customer knows nothing of what is happening - even if you disregard the process, it's a struggle to comprehend how someone thinks they are getting their electricity and/or gas supplied for nothing! 

Mobtr

‘Customer refuses to pay energy bill for 2 years so energy company install a pp meter’ is not as good a story as ‘ evil energy company forces entry to install pp meter’
@EssexHebridean  good luck with the gym this year - enjoy seeing how your doing, hope you beat last year 😀