Indemnity fraud scam

paulfcb

sheramber said:

 She gave a third party a screenshot of her direct debits

Why? and aho was this third party/

It was a Facebook scam.

paulfcb

grumbler said:

And how was this 'third party' able to claim the money back from HER bank?

That's the thing I don't understand. I'd come home from work and the wheels were already in motion. Red flags everywhere from my point on of view.

Zanderman

For those querying what this is about there's an explanation of this type of fraud here: https://www.alrayanbank.co.uk/latest-news/protect-yourself-direct-debit-scams

Opening paras: 

Direct Debit scams involve the scammer claiming that they can recover Direct Debit and debit card payments. These will have been legitimately made by the victim for products and services.

The scammer first requests the victim’s online banking details. Once they have them, they request refunds under the Direct Debit indemnity scheme – a system designed to let genuine customers challenge payments they think have been incorrectly taken. Initially, the victim will have a refund appear in their account, at which point the scammer will request their fee of 50%.

But the companies who gave the refunds will inevitably challenge them, and of course, will be able to prove that the payments were taken from you correctly. At this point the bank will repay them, using money from your account, but you will have lost that 50% you paid to the scammer.

How to spot Direct Debit fraud

• You see an ad on social media, claiming a hassle-free way to claim money back on your Direct Debits. This is not legitimate; if you have paid for something through a Direct Debit that you have received, you are not eligible to claim any money back. If you think a Direct Debit has been taken in error, speak to your bank directly.
• You are asked to provide your online banking details. There is never a legitimate reason for anyone to ask you for these.
• You are asked to lie to your bank regarding payment requests. If this happens you are definitely being targeted by a scammer, who will encourage you to take this action and then disappear, leaving you to face the consequences alone.

....[more info on the linked page]

MorningcoffeeIV

Ah. That puts the OPs partner in a trickier position, if they were complicit in trying to defraud the water company.

flaneurs_lobster

Zanderman said:

For those querying what this is about there's an explanation of this type of fraud here: https://www.alrayanbank.co.uk/latest-news/protect-yourself-direct-debit-scams

Opening paras: 

Direct Debit scams involve the scammer claiming that they can recover Direct Debit and debit card payments. These will have been legitimately made by the victim for products and services.

The scammer first requests the victim’s online banking details. Once they have them, they request refunds under the Direct Debit indemnity scheme – a system designed to let genuine customers challenge payments they think have been incorrectly taken. Initially, the victim will have a refund appear in their account, at which point the scammer will request their fee of 50%.

But the companies who gave the refunds will inevitably challenge them, and of course, will be able to prove that the payments were taken from you correctly. At this point the bank will repay them, using money from your account, but you will have lost that 50% you paid to the scammer.

How to spot Direct Debit fraud

• You see an ad on social media, claiming a hassle-free way to claim money back on your Direct Debits. This is not legitimate; if you have paid for something through a Direct Debit that you have received, you are not eligible to claim any money back. If you think a Direct Debit has been taken in error, speak to your bank directly.
• You are asked to provide your online banking details. There is never a legitimate reason for anyone to ask you for these.
• You are asked to lie to your bank regarding payment requests. If this happens you are definitely being targeted by a scammer, who will encourage you to take this action and then disappear, leaving you to face the consequences alone.

....[more info on the linked page]

Thanks for that, I thought myself pretty savvy about online badness but this is a new one on me.

What possible reasons can the scammers give to make you think that your utility DDs have been paid in error and you can claim the money back?

grumbler

flaneurs_lobster said:

Zanderman said:

For those querying what this is about there's an explanation of this type of fraud here: https://www.alrayanbank.co.uk/latest-news/protect-yourself-direct-debit-scams

Opening paras: 

Direct Debit scams involve the scammer claiming that they can recover Direct Debit and debit card payments. These will have been legitimately made by the victim for products and services.

The scammer first requests the victim’s online banking details. Once they have them, they request refunds under the Direct Debit indemnity scheme – a system designed to let genuine customers challenge payments they think have been incorrectly taken. Initially, the victim will have a refund appear in their account, at which point the scammer will request their fee of 50%.

But the companies who gave the refunds will inevitably challenge them, and of course, will be able to prove that the payments were taken from you correctly. At this point the bank will repay them, using money from your account, but you will have lost that 50% you paid to the scammer.

How to spot Direct Debit fraud

• You see an ad on social media, claiming a hassle-free way to claim money back on your Direct Debits. This is not legitimate; if you have paid for something through a Direct Debit that you have received, you are not eligible to claim any money back. If you think a Direct Debit has been taken in error, speak to your bank directly.
• You are asked to provide your online banking details. There is never a legitimate reason for anyone to ask you for these.
• You are asked to lie to your bank regarding payment requests. If this happens you are definitely being targeted by a scammer, who will encourage you to take this action and then disappear, leaving you to face the consequences alone.

....[more info on the linked page]

What possible reasons can the scammers give to make you think that your utility DDs have been paid in error and you can claim the money back?

... and " to provide your online banking details"?!
Unbelievable! I don't like banks, but more and more I feel sorry for them.

born_again

flaneurs_lobster said:

What possible reasons can the scammers give to make you think that your utility DDs have been paid in error and you can claim the money back?

Same as many others. "You have been overcharged" or "How to claim money back"

Sadly given how hard some people are suffering these days, anything like this works....

Real answer is if it's on social media. IGNORE....

sheramber

flaneurs_lobster said:

Thanks for that, I thought myself pretty savvy about online badness but this is a new one on me.

What possible reasons can the scammers give to make you think that your utility DDs have been paid in error and you can claim the money back?

People see pound signs and jump in.

phillw

grumbler said:
This has nothing to do with the DD guarantee. The guarantee is on the bank's side. The missed payments can appear on the other side - the utility company.

And, generally, the DD guarantee has its limitations (valid reasons). If abused, it can be close to fraud.

If something happens that isn't my fault that prevents DD paying out, whether it's the bank or the utility company fault & I deal with it promptly then I would make that complaint.

And I have done so and managed to avoid any missed payment because of it.

I've no idea whether this has been dealt with promptly of course, though I would still make that complaint and force them to tell me to justify how long it had been.

eskbanker

phillw said:

grumbler said:
This has nothing to do with the DD guarantee. The guarantee is on the bank's side. The missed payments can appear on the other side - the utility company.

And, generally, the DD guarantee has its limitations (valid reasons). If abused, it can be close to fraud.

If something happens that isn't my fault that prevents DD paying out, whether it's the bank or the utility company fault & I deal with it promptly then I would make that complaint.

And I have done so and managed to avoid any missed payment because of it.

I've no idea whether this has been dealt with promptly of course, though I would still make that complaint and force them to tell me to justify how long it had been.

I think you're maybe at cross purposes here - AIUI the water company's reference to missed payments relates to payments that were previously processed correctly (by DD) but then fraudulently reversed, which isn't a scenario that the DD guarantee covers....