Courier "lost" high value parcels

Civic2056

I'm reluctant to post too many details here but the salient facts are these:

- A national/international courier used by my brother's business picked up a furniture item valued approximately £500. This item was meant for another courier. It was subsequently never recovered and my brother was £500 out of pocket

- He was insured but the courier class effectively every single item that could break in transit as being ineligible to insure so the policy was useless

- We have submitted in initial proceedings for small claims etc. They finally responded at length denying any kind of wrongdoing and said they are unwilling to mediate. This means court.

A number of things.

Firstly, the court is in the home city of this company's headquarters, on the other side of the country. Are these court sessions online nowadays or are they in person as it seems unreasonable for us to travel so far

Secondly more pressingly, what can we do to win the case?

We have doorbell footage of them taking the parcel, which they admit.

My suggestion was that we report it to the police as a theft. It's over £250 so unless I'm wrong they will investigate to some extent. At the very least we'll get a crime number. However I am aware under the Theft Act 1968 you have to prove the person intended to steal. This seems like it will be difficult, but under the act, would walking out of a shop with something that wasn't yours mistakenly, be considered theft? If so then it seems more likely there could be a legal case and not just a civil one against the company. They have "misplaced" other parcels, which in my albeit limited understanding of the legal system, would seem to aid the argument that the parcels being lost was not an act of incompetence or human error, but rather deliberate. The business is registered at the home address, couriers are paid a pittance, there's the motive and means etc for them to commit theft.

Regardless of whether or not it is intentional or just incompetence, without me sharing further details, is there anything anyone can advise here? The company in question is basically arguing it's the other company's fault, the company who the parcel was meant to be for. I may be willing to disclose litigation documents to anyone curious enough with a background in civil and criminal law, but do not wish to prejudice future proceedings.

Manxman_in_exile

How on earth could the courier company pick up the wrong parcel?  How was that allowed to happen?

If a consumer claimant initiates court action against a trader, I thought that the consumer claimant could opt to have the case heard at a court convenient to them, not the defendant?

elsien

Did he check the insurance before he sent it to make sure that the item was covered up to the correct amount? Are they refusing to pay up because they’re questioning whether the insurance cover was valid?

Why are they saying it’s the other companies fault? Are they saying that they did deliver it to the other company and the other company are denying it? Without clarifying the reasons that you’ve been given it’s all a bit confusing.

 I can’t see how you can prove theft when couriers lose items all the time.  Given the number of items that they accept every day, quantifying that as theft rather than carelessness seems unlikely.

Civic2056

elsien said:

Did he check the insurance before he sent it to make sure that the item was covered up to the correct amount? Are they refusing to pay up because they’re questioning whether the insurance cover was valid?

Why are they saying it’s the other companies fault? Are they saying that they did deliver it to the other company and the other company are denying it? Without clarifying the reasons that you’ve been given it’s all a bit confusing.

 I can’t see how you can prove theft when couriers lose items all the time.  Given the number of items that they accept every day, quantifying that as theft rather than carelessness seems unlikely.

It's not an insurance question...
Basically, my brother was using two couriers with two different labels on boxes. The courier who we are lookign to take to court (lets call them Courier A). They took a package which was supposed to be delivered to a customer via Courier B. 

Courier A is alleging my brother's contract was with some subdivision of Courier A, not Courier A themselves and thus the claim needs to be with this subdivision. To be honest, reading their answer is a confusing mess. No doubt I'm confusing you too.

In a nutshell, Courier A took a parcel meant for Courier B, but Courier A is alleging my brother's contract was with a subdivision/partner of Courier A and not Courier A themselves.

Courier A isn't saying outright it's not their fault, but they're not saying it isn't their fault either. 

Civic2056

Manxman_in_exile said:

How on earth could the courier company pick up the wrong parcel?  How was that allowed to happen?

If a consumer claimant initiates court action against a trader, I thought that the consumer claimant could opt to have the case heard at a court convenient to them, not the defendant?

I will look into this, as I think you are right. As for how on earth they could pick up the wrong parcel...it's almost certainly incompetence, you only need to look at the way these morons drive to know they don't give a toss for what they're carrying. They saw two parcels on the driveway and assumed they were both for them rather than reading the label which would show one was destined for another Courier. It has happened more than once so it could still be incompetence, but there is also the possibility of theft. My view would be that a more serious criminal charge of theft, if substansiated, would be more detrimental to the company than a bog standard civil case, and they would quickly settle the appropriate damages and provide compensation. It would be difficult to prove theft, I may be wrong but like I said under the act it appears that you have to prove there was intent. Now clearly this large international courier company did not conspire to steal some parcels, but presumably they would be the first port of call and then if it was deemed by the police to be a worthwhile line of enquiry (at this stage unlikely) they could make contact with the driver etc as they would (you would hope) have records of who delivered what. 

We want to avoid that though. We just want to get them to court and pay the money. We'll send in the bailiffs/enforcers to collect if they refus

Civic2056

elsien said:

Did he check the insurance before he sent it to make sure that the item was covered up to the correct amount? Are they refusing to pay up because they’re questioning whether the insurance cover was valid?

Why are they saying it’s the other companies fault? Are they saying that they did deliver it to the other company and the other company are denying it? Without clarifying the reasons that you’ve been given it’s all a bit confusing.

 I can’t see how you can prove theft when couriers lose items all the time.  Given the number of items that they accept every day, quantifying that as theft rather than carelessness seems unlikely.

No mention of insurance. But insurance doesn't cover the item, and this courier, because it is one of the cheaper ones, basically accepts zero liability for any items damaged in transit. Which seems odd as I would have thought they would all be required to fulfil a certain national legal standard

diinozzo

Manxman_in_exile said:

How on earth could the courier company pick up the wrong parcel?  How was that allowed to happen?

If a consumer claimant initiates court action against a trader, I thought that the consumer claimant could opt to have the case heard at a court convenient to them, not the defendant?

As I read it, it's a business to business contract.

turnitround

Im more confused than ever. Are you saying there were 2 items which were meant to be collected by 2 different couriers and one courier has taken both, or are  you saying that courier A was supposed to deliver the item to courier B who in turn was supposed to deliver on to the customer?

powerful_Rogue

I can't imagine the police being interested in this, it sounds like an error rather then dishonest intent.

If this has happened more then once, shouldn't steps also be taken by the company sending the parcels to prevent this happening?

user1977

Civic2056 said:

My suggestion was that we report it to the police as a theft. It's over £250 so unless I'm wrong they will investigate to some extent. At the very least we'll get a crime number. However I am aware under the Theft Act 1968 you have to prove the person intended to steal. This seems like it will be difficult, but under the act, would walking out of a shop with something that wasn't yours mistakenly, be considered theft? If so then it seems more likely there could be a legal case and not just a civil one against the company.

It's not theft, and even if it was, the police are hardly likely to be very interested, and even if they were, they're not going to get your brother's money back for him.

turnitround

How do you intend to prove theft when its a mistake. Why was no-one from your brothers company checking what was being taken from the premises?