Help calculating final rent payment

sarahdh

We have lived in our rented house since 2016. We had an initial 6 month contract, starting 3rd June 2016. 

- Rent was due on 3rd of every calendar month. We obviously continued renting beyond the initial 6 months, so the contract became a rolling one. 

- On 20th December 2019 we signed a new contract, and this one said must pay rent on 1st day of each rent period (so presumably the 20th of each month). This was never really pointed out, and nothing was ever said about changing the payment date, and we have continued to pay on the 3rd of the month without issue.

- We will soon be leaving and will be giving the required one calendar month notice, so for example we will give notice on 20th March to leave 20th April. 

Someone please help me figure out how much our final rent payment should be, because my brain is scrambled! If we have paid our £550 rent on 3rd March as usual, should we be making a partial payment that covers from 3rd April to 20th April?

MikeJXE

It depends what start date the new contract says 

sarahdh

MikeJXE said:

It depends what start date the new contract says 

20th December 2019

anselld

sarahdh said:

MikeJXE said:

It depends what start date the new contract says 

20th December 2019

Is that the start date or the signature date?  It seems very odd that they would start a new contract which did not align with the previous rent days.

propertyrental

sarahdh said:

We have lived in our rented house since 2016. We had an initial 6 month contract, starting 3rd June 2016. 

- Rent was due on 3rd of every calendar month. We obviously continued renting beyond the initial 6 months, so the contract became a rolling one. 

- On 20th December 2019 we signed a new contract, and this one said must pay rent on 1st day of each rent period (so presumably the 20th of each month). This was never really pointed out, and nothing was ever said about changing the payment date, and we have continued to pay on the 3rd of the month without issue.

- We will soon be leaving and will be giving the required one calendar month notice,
I assume that is what the tenancy agreement specifies yes? Please quote. 
so for example we will give notice on 20th March to leave 20th April. 

No. Your periodic (rolling) tenancy needs to end on the last day of a Period ie the 19th  of the month since each new period starts on the 20th.
Serve notice on or before the 19th March.

Someone please help me figure out how much our final rent payment should be, because my brain is scrambled! If we have paid our £550 rent on 3rd March as usual, should we be making a partial payment that covers from 3rd April to 20th April?

If you never implemented the new rent payment schedule, then

* on 3rd Dec 2019 you paid the old rent (how much?) covering the period 3rd Dec 2019 - 2nd Jan 2020.
* that meant that the period 20th Dec to 2nd Jan was paid at the old rent (£X) instead of the new rent of £550.
* So you have long-standing rent arrears of £550 - £X, pro rata for 14 rays.
* I assume on 3rd Feb 2023 you paid a months rent (£550) covering the period 3rd Feb - 2nd March, yes?
* then on 3rd March your rent will cover 3rd March - 2nd April
*  If you end your tenancy on 19th April (not 20th - see bold above), then on 3rd April you will owe rent for the period 3rd April - 19th April ie 17 days.

17 days rent is £550 x 12 months / 365 days x 17 = £307.39

Plus the long-standing arrears which the landlord may or may not have forgotten.......

I think! (corrections welcome!)

Note: as anselld says, do check your tenancy agreement start date (not the date you signed)

sarahdh

anselld said:

sarahdh said:

MikeJXE said:

It depends what start date the new contract says 

20th December 2019

Is that the start date or the signature date?  It seems very odd that they would start a new contract which did not align with the previous rent days.

Both the start date and the signature date. It does seem weird, we didn't even realise!

sarahdh

propertyrental said:

sarahdh said:

We have lived in our rented house since 2016. We had an initial 6 month contract, starting 3rd June 2016. 

- Rent was due on 3rd of every calendar month. We obviously continued renting beyond the initial 6 months, so the contract became a rolling one. 

- On 20th December 2019 we signed a new contract, and this one said must pay rent on 1st day of each rent period (so presumably the 20th of each month). This was never really pointed out, and nothing was ever said about changing the payment date, and we have continued to pay on the 3rd of the month without issue.

- We will soon be leaving and will be giving the required one calendar month notice,
I assume that is what the tenancy agreement specifie yes? Please quote. 
so for example we will give notice on 20th March to leave 20th April. 

No. Your periodic (rolling) tenancy needs to end on the last day of a Period ie the 19th  of the month since each new period starts on the 20th.
Serve notice on or before the 19th March.

Someone please help me figure out how much our final rent payment should be, because my brain is scrambled! If we have paid our £550 rent on 3rd March as usual, should we be making a partial payment that covers from 3rd April to 20th April?

If you never implemented the new rent payment schedule, then

* on 3rd Dec 2019 you paid the old rent (how much?) covering the period 3rd Dec 2019 - 2nd Jan 2020.
* that meant that the period 20th Dec to 2nd Jan was paid at the old rent (£X) instead of the new rent of £550.
* So you have long-standing rent arrears of £550 - £X, pro rata for 14 rays.
* I assume on 3rd Feb 2023 you paid a months rent (£550) covering the period 3rd Feb - 2nd March, yes?
* then on 3rd March your rent will cover 3rd March - 2nd April
*  If you end your tenancy on 19th April (not 20th - see bold above), then on 3rd April you will owe rent for the period 3rd April - 19th April ie 17 days.

17 days rent is £550 x 12 months / 365 days x 17 = £307.39

Plus the long-standing arrears which the landlord may or may not have forgotten.......

I think! (corrections welcome!)

Note: as anselld says, do check your tenancy agreement start date (not the date you signed)

Thank you, this is starting to make sense!

- re: notice it says 'The notice must end on the last day of a rental period, and must be of sufficient length. Where the tenancy is for monthly rental periods the notice must be at least one calendar month in length.'

- I'm pleased you pointed that out! So the 19th is when we need to give notice, not the 20th. 

- Rent is £550 and always has been. It didn't increase when we signed the 2019 contract. Does that mean there are no arrears?

- Yes, we paid £550 on 3rd Feb and will pay £550 on 3rd March.

So that seems right I think, a payment of £307.39 on 3rd April to cover us until the 19th. Do we have until end of day on 19th to leave? Hopefully will be out well before, but just in case we are still cleaning.

propertyrental

sarahdh said:

propertyrental said:

sarahdh said:

We have lived in our rented house since 2016. We had an initial 6 month contract, starting 3rd June 2016. 

- Rent was due on 3rd of every calendar month. We obviously continued renting beyond the initial 6 months, so the contract became a rolling one. 

- On 20th December 2019 we signed a new contract, and this one said must pay rent on 1st day of each rent period (so presumably the 20th of each month). This was never really pointed out, and nothing was ever said about changing the payment date, and we have continued to pay on the 3rd of the month without issue.

- We will soon be leaving and will be giving the required one calendar month notice,
I assume that is what the tenancy agreement specifie yes? Please quote. 
so for example we will give notice on 20th March to leave 20th April. 

No. Your periodic (rolling) tenancy needs to end on the last day of a Period ie the 19th  of the month since each new period starts on the 20th.
Serve notice on or before the 19th March.

Someone please help me figure out how much our final rent payment should be, because my brain is scrambled! If we have paid our £550 rent on 3rd March as usual, should we be making a partial payment that covers from 3rd April to 20th April?

If you never implemented the new rent payment schedule, then

* on 3rd Dec 2019 you paid the old rent (how much?) covering the period 3rd Dec 2019 - 2nd Jan 2020.
* that meant that the period 20th Dec to 2nd Jan was paid at the old rent (£X) instead of the new rent of £550.
* So you have long-standing rent arrears of £550 - £X, pro rata for 14 rays.
* I assume on 3rd Feb 2023 you paid a months rent (£550) covering the period 3rd Feb - 2nd March, yes?
* then on 3rd March your rent will cover 3rd March - 2nd April
*  If you end your tenancy on 19th April (not 20th - see bold above), then on 3rd April you will owe rent for the period 3rd April - 19th April ie 17 days.

17 days rent is £550 x 12 months / 365 days x 17 = £307.39

Plus the long-standing arrears which the landlord may or may not have forgotten.......

I think! (corrections welcome!)

Note: as anselld says, do check your tenancy agreement start date (not the date you signed)

Thank you, this is starting to make sense!

- re: notice it says 'The notice must end on the last day of a rental period, and must be of sufficient length. Where the tenancy is for monthly rental periods the notice must be at least one calendar month in length.'

- I'm pleased you pointed that out! So the 19th is when we need to give notice, not the 20th. 

- Rent is £550 and always has been. It didn't increase when we signed the 2019 contract. Does that mean there are no arrears?

- Yes, we paid £550 on 3rd Feb and will pay £550 on 3rd March.

So that seems right I think, a payment of £307.39 on 3rd April to cover us until the 19th. Do we have until end of day on 19th to leave? Hopefully will be out well before, but just in case we are still cleaning.

Great. So effectively a full tenancy period notice. Comes to the same thing.
Indeed. 19th.
Sorry - I just assumed the new tenancy agreement in 2019 would have had a rent increase. Correct - no arrears then. Makes the new TA even stranger a) why start mid period not 3rd jan 2020? b) why not increase the rent? c) why bother at all and not just continue periodic? But that's water under the bridge now and not really important
Yes £307.39 unless my maths (poor) is wrong. Legally I think you have till midnight on the last day though L/agent prefer end of business day so they can receive keys etc and mid-day is often quoted. Clean the day before?

And take photos after cleaning. Remember your obligation is to leave the property in (at least) as good condition when you leave as it was when you moved in (read the move-in inventory), less fair wear and tear.

sarahdh

propertyrental said:

sarahdh said:

propertyrental said:

sarahdh said:

We have lived in our rented house since 2016. We had an initial 6 month contract, starting 3rd June 2016. 

- Rent was due on 3rd of every calendar month. We obviously continued renting beyond the initial 6 months, so the contract became a rolling one. 

- On 20th December 2019 we signed a new contract, and this one said must pay rent on 1st day of each rent period (so presumably the 20th of each month). This was never really pointed out, and nothing was ever said about changing the payment date, and we have continued to pay on the 3rd of the month without issue.

- We will soon be leaving and will be giving the required one calendar month notice,
I assume that is what the tenancy agreement specifie yes? Please quote. 
so for example we will give notice on 20th March to leave 20th April. 

No. Your periodic (rolling) tenancy needs to end on the last day of a Period ie the 19th  of the month since each new period starts on the 20th.
Serve notice on or before the 19th March.

Someone please help me figure out how much our final rent payment should be, because my brain is scrambled! If we have paid our £550 rent on 3rd March as usual, should we be making a partial payment that covers from 3rd April to 20th April?

If you never implemented the new rent payment schedule, then

* on 3rd Dec 2019 you paid the old rent (how much?) covering the period 3rd Dec 2019 - 2nd Jan 2020.
* that meant that the period 20th Dec to 2nd Jan was paid at the old rent (£X) instead of the new rent of £550.
* So you have long-standing rent arrears of £550 - £X, pro rata for 14 rays.
* I assume on 3rd Feb 2023 you paid a months rent (£550) covering the period 3rd Feb - 2nd March, yes?
* then on 3rd March your rent will cover 3rd March - 2nd April
*  If you end your tenancy on 19th April (not 20th - see bold above), then on 3rd April you will owe rent for the period 3rd April - 19th April ie 17 days.

17 days rent is £550 x 12 months / 365 days x 17 = £307.39

Plus the long-standing arrears which the landlord may or may not have forgotten.......

I think! (corrections welcome!)

Note: as anselld says, do check your tenancy agreement start date (not the date you signed)

Thank you, this is starting to make sense!

- re: notice it says 'The notice must end on the last day of a rental period, and must be of sufficient length. Where the tenancy is for monthly rental periods the notice must be at least one calendar month in length.'

- I'm pleased you pointed that out! So the 19th is when we need to give notice, not the 20th. 

- Rent is £550 and always has been. It didn't increase when we signed the 2019 contract. Does that mean there are no arrears?

- Yes, we paid £550 on 3rd Feb and will pay £550 on 3rd March.

So that seems right I think, a payment of £307.39 on 3rd April to cover us until the 19th. Do we have until end of day on 19th to leave? Hopefully will be out well before, but just in case we are still cleaning.

Great. So effectively a full tenancy period notice. Comes to the same thing.
Indeed. 19th.
Sorry - I just assumed the new tenancy agreement in 2019 would have had a rent increase. Correct - no arrears then. Makes the new TA even stranger a) why start mid period not 3rd jan 2020? b) why not increase the rent? c) why bother at all and not just continue periodic? But that's water under the bridge now and not really important
Yes £307.39 unless my maths (poor) is wrong. Legally I think you have till midnight on the last day though L/agent prefer end of business day so they can receive keys etc and mid-day is often quoted. Clean the day before?

And take photos after cleaning. Remember your obligation is to leave the property in (at least) as good condition when you leave as it was when you moved in (read the move-in inventory), less fair wear and tear.

There's no agent, just direct with the landlord. I think he needed a new tenancy signing as he was re-mortgaging at the time, but not sure.

Well you touch on what will be my next challenge I think! The contract states that our deposit is in the 'tenancy deposit scheme', but I've checked all 3 schemes, with all possible dates, and he hasn't put it in any scheme at all. He has done no maintenance/upkeep (other than gas/boiler service) on the property whatsoever in the almost 7 years that we have been here, and nothing was new when we moved in. We've never had an inspection in all that time, and he didn't do any sort of inventory when we moved in either. So there's 7 years of wear and tear on already old bathroom/kitchen/carpets etc. We fully redecorated ourselves at our own expense as it was looking so old and tired. I suspect he might try to keep some deposit, as I know he is going to be unhappy that we are leaving. Not looking forward to sorting that out!

propertyrental

sarahdh said:

propertyrental said:

sarahdh said:

propertyrental said:

sarahdh said:

We have lived in our rented house since 2016. We had an initial 6 month contract, starting 3rd June 2016. 

- Rent was due on 3rd of every calendar month. We obviously continued renting beyond the initial 6 months, so the contract became a rolling one. 

- On 20th December 2019 we signed a new contract, and this one said must pay rent on 1st day of each rent period (so presumably the 20th of each month). This was never really pointed out, and nothing was ever said about changing the payment date, and we have continued to pay on the 3rd of the month without issue.

- We will soon be leaving and will be giving the required one calendar month notice,
I assume that is what the tenancy agreement specifie yes? Please quote. 
so for example we will give notice on 20th March to leave 20th April. 

No. Your periodic (rolling) tenancy needs to end on the last day of a Period ie the 19th  of the month since each new period starts on the 20th.
Serve notice on or before the 19th March.

Someone please help me figure out how much our final rent payment should be, because my brain is scrambled! If we have paid our £550 rent on 3rd March as usual, should we be making a partial payment that covers from 3rd April to 20th April?

If you never implemented the new rent payment schedule, then

* on 3rd Dec 2019 you paid the old rent (how much?) covering the period 3rd Dec 2019 - 2nd Jan 2020.
* that meant that the period 20th Dec to 2nd Jan was paid at the old rent (£X) instead of the new rent of £550.
* So you have long-standing rent arrears of £550 - £X, pro rata for 14 rays.
* I assume on 3rd Feb 2023 you paid a months rent (£550) covering the period 3rd Feb - 2nd March, yes?
* then on 3rd March your rent will cover 3rd March - 2nd April
*  If you end your tenancy on 19th April (not 20th - see bold above), then on 3rd April you will owe rent for the period 3rd April - 19th April ie 17 days.

17 days rent is £550 x 12 months / 365 days x 17 = £307.39

Plus the long-standing arrears which the landlord may or may not have forgotten.......

I think! (corrections welcome!)

Note: as anselld says, do check your tenancy agreement start date (not the date you signed)

Thank you, this is starting to make sense!

- re: notice it says 'The notice must end on the last day of a rental period, and must be of sufficient length. Where the tenancy is for monthly rental periods the notice must be at least one calendar month in length.'

- I'm pleased you pointed that out! So the 19th is when we need to give notice, not the 20th. 

- Rent is £550 and always has been. It didn't increase when we signed the 2019 contract. Does that mean there are no arrears?

- Yes, we paid £550 on 3rd Feb and will pay £550 on 3rd March.

So that seems right I think, a payment of £307.39 on 3rd April to cover us until the 19th. Do we have until end of day on 19th to leave? Hopefully will be out well before, but just in case we are still cleaning.

Great. So effectively a full tenancy period notice. Comes to the same thing.
Indeed. 19th.
Sorry - I just assumed the new tenancy agreement in 2019 would have had a rent increase. Correct - no arrears then. Makes the new TA even stranger a) why start mid period not 3rd jan 2020? b) why not increase the rent? c) why bother at all and not just continue periodic? But that's water under the bridge now and not really important
Yes £307.39 unless my maths (poor) is wrong. Legally I think you have till midnight on the last day though L/agent prefer end of business day so they can receive keys etc and mid-day is often quoted. Clean the day before?

And take photos after cleaning. Remember your obligation is to leave the property in (at least) as good condition when you leave as it was when you moved in (read the move-in inventory), less fair wear and tear.

.........The contract states that our deposit is in the 'tenancy deposit scheme', but I've checked all 3 schemes, with all possible dates, and he hasn't put it in any scheme at all. .......

So read:

Post 3: Deposits: Payment, Protection and Return.

Sadly G_M who wrote this has been banned from the site by the mods so is unable to update the post as he used to do. 

There have been 1 or 2 changes in the law since then (notably the Tenants Fees Act), but the essence of his useful post remains.