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Price cap falls - but pay more !
Comments
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Qyburn said:
Do you know if those include VAT? Looking at N Scotland it looks like S/C of 56p, and unit rate of 47.6p/kWh. Roughly, and assuming the figure for 3100kWh includes S/C.Scot_39 said:
Or if you want the full regional / payment method tables - see links off ofQyburn said:Could anyone post the best link to the actual published information? Thanks,VAT - I would need to check - but from memory - think not. The tables are for the businesses - not consumers.S/C - defintely not - that's the first nil kWh column.And the three sets of prices - Other Payment Method = Ofgem speak for DD, standard credit = pay on bill, prepayment self explanotory.There are two columns - for gas - and for each electric - single rate is normal flat rate - multirate is primarily 3.5m on E7 as of 2021 ( but impacts 0.5m - on E10, and I beleive all other multirates - so EDF Eco 20:20, SP White Meter / THTC etc).The NIL kWh - is the annual standing charge.The 12000 / 3100 / 4000 - the respective unit rate.Oh and just to confuse issues - the SR table is 3100 units - the £3280 cap - only allows 2900 SR units.So need to add 2 nil units, 1 12000 gas units and SR electric *29/31 - for all 14 billing regions - then take the average, IIRC add 5% VAT - to get to the £3280 cap level - quoted by the media.0 -
I believe in the truth. So I don't like to see a headline telling me the price cap is going down but you will pay more. What is that saying about lies, damned lies and statistics?EssexHebridean said:
No, but the truth tends not to sell many papers or generate many clicks!ProDave said:
I am not trying to be sensationalist but genuinely trying to understand it, as are probably 99% of consumers.Mstty said:
It really is not complicated at all.km1500 said:OK thank you both. So there are two price caps. The price cap, and a second price cap called an EPG price cap. Told you it was complicated!
However the media storm around today price cap announcement and the following media and social news will be sensationalist to say the least whipping people up and we will see some of them here and will try and explain it.
As far as the consumer is concerned, there is just one price cap, the limit on how much a domestic customer can be charger per kWh and a limit on the daily standing charge. But to obscure the issue they chose to describe the "cap" not in terms of price per kWh but in terms of the average annual energy bill.
So today we are told the "cap" is being reduced and the average energy bill will drop. But the customer will pay more.
And people wonder why there is confusion. Whatever happened to the ministry of plain talking?
Do the people that write these press releases about the cap reducing but bills rising deliberately set out to confuse?“While wholesale prices are falling, due to the reduction in government support most consumers will see an approximate 20% increase in their unit rate on both gas and electric as well as an increase in the electricity standing charge. A typical household will still be paying approximately £280 less under the Energy Price Guarantee than they would if rates were set at the Ofgem price cap, however”.There you go - I think it pretty much summarises, but it’s not going to get your average Daily Fail reader frothing st the mouth is it!
Why not stop messing us about, and say energy prices are rising about 20% in April as the government cannot afford to subsidise prices quite as much as they were previously. Now it would not sell newspapers, but everyone would probably just groan and accept it rather than argue about the lies and distorted truths they are trying to tell us just now.0 -
If it wasn't complicated, why do we have literally thousands of posts about energy prices on this board?Mstty said:
It really is not complicated at all.km1500 said:OK thank you both. So there are two price caps. The price cap, and a second price cap called an EPG price cap. Told you it was complicated!
However the media storm around today price cap announcement and the following media and social news will be sensationalist to say the least whipping people up and we will see some of them here and will try and explain it.
It's not just about the media messaging.
It IS confusing for (IMO) a majority of the country, even when explained in the simplest of terms.How's it going, AKA, Nutwatch? - 12 month spends to date = 3.24% of current retirement "pot" (as at end December 2025)3 -
For your average consumer who believes their DD is their bill, it's understandable that it is confusing.Sea_Shell said:
If it wasn't complicated, why do we have literally thousands of posts about energy prices on this board?Mstty said:
It really is not complicated at all.km1500 said:OK thank you both. So there are two price caps. The price cap, and a second price cap called an EPG price cap. Told you it was complicated!
However the media storm around today price cap announcement and the following media and social news will be sensationalist to say the least whipping people up and we will see some of them here and will try and explain it.
It's not just about the media messaging.
It IS confusing for (IMO) a majority of the country, even when explained in the simplest of terms.
I don't see why the Ofgem cap reducing needs to be headline news, since the actual relevant news is that the government discount is reducing so we will be paying more per unit. And it seems the standing charge is increasing even with the overall Ofgem cap reducing.0 -
Northern Scotland figures come to ..So need to add 2 nil units, 1 12000 gas units and SR electric *29/31 - for all 14 billing regions - then take the average, IIRC add 5% VAT - to get to the £3280 cap level - quoted by the media.
So £101.20 + £1,536.97 + £205.02 + (29 x £1,679.95/31) = £ 3,414.75
+VAT = £ 3,585.49Electricity unit price = 54p/kWh
No idea how you average across the regions, you'd need subscriber numbers for each to get an actual UK average.
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i dont think its that confusing but it does take spoons/brain power. most people have a lot of other things to think about. they arent going to read more than the headlines and probably lucky if they look past the first page of there bill.Sea_Shell said:
If it wasn't complicated, why do we have literally thousands of posts about energy prices on this board?Mstty said:
It really is not complicated at all.km1500 said:OK thank you both. So there are two price caps. The price cap, and a second price cap called an EPG price cap. Told you it was complicated!
However the media storm around today price cap announcement and the following media and social news will be sensationalist to say the least whipping people up and we will see some of them here and will try and explain it.
It's not just about the media messaging.
It IS confusing for (IMO) a majority of the country, even when explained in the simplest of terms.
we arent like that here. but we're a self selecting group. and theres nothing wrong with using your limited spoons to remember if the kid needs there pe kit tomorrow or thinking about a meeting tomorrow at work.
doesnt mean there stupid no matter what some posters seem to think. just means they 'normally' have differnt priorities and this disruption has dumped them in at the deep end of trying to get a handle of the basic things when theres also discounts and rebates and caps that are 'non standard' going on.Almost everything will work again if you unplug it for a few minutes, including you. Anne Lamott
It's amazing how those with a can-do attitude and willingness to 'pitch in and work' get all the luck, isn't it?
Please consider buying some pet food and giving it to your local food bank collection or animal charity. Animals aren't to blame for the cost of living crisis.2 -
I’d tend to agree with you, but we’re in an age now where a lot of people seem to want drama, speculation, hyperbole and sensationalism. Those of us who would prefer a responsible media who presented the facts are in a minority - and I suspect our “clicks” are also worth less than those who will go down internet rabbit holes from sensationalised stories to the next bit of juicy “celebrity” gossip.ProDave said:
I believe in the truth. So I don't like to see a headline telling me the price cap is going down but you will pay more. What is that saying about lies, damned lies and statistics?EssexHebridean said:
No, but the truth tends not to sell many papers or generate many clicks!ProDave said:
I am not trying to be sensationalist but genuinely trying to understand it, as are probably 99% of consumers.Mstty said:
It really is not complicated at all.km1500 said:OK thank you both. So there are two price caps. The price cap, and a second price cap called an EPG price cap. Told you it was complicated!
However the media storm around today price cap announcement and the following media and social news will be sensationalist to say the least whipping people up and we will see some of them here and will try and explain it.
As far as the consumer is concerned, there is just one price cap, the limit on how much a domestic customer can be charger per kWh and a limit on the daily standing charge. But to obscure the issue they chose to describe the "cap" not in terms of price per kWh but in terms of the average annual energy bill.
So today we are told the "cap" is being reduced and the average energy bill will drop. But the customer will pay more.
And people wonder why there is confusion. Whatever happened to the ministry of plain talking?
Do the people that write these press releases about the cap reducing but bills rising deliberately set out to confuse?“While wholesale prices are falling, due to the reduction in government support most consumers will see an approximate 20% increase in their unit rate on both gas and electric as well as an increase in the electricity standing charge. A typical household will still be paying approximately £280 less under the Energy Price Guarantee than they would if rates were set at the Ofgem price cap, however”.There you go - I think it pretty much summarises, but it’s not going to get your average Daily Fail reader frothing st the mouth is it!
Why not stop messing us about, and say energy prices are rising about 20% in April as the government cannot afford to subsidise prices quite as much as they were previously. Now it would not sell newspapers, but everyone would probably just groan and accept it rather than argue about the lies and distorted truths they are trying to tell us just now.🎉 MORTGAGE FREE (First time!) 30/09/2016 🎉 And now we go again…New mortgage taken 01/09/23 🏡
Balance as at 01/09/23 = £115,000.00 Balance as at 31/12/23 = £112,000.00
Balance as at 31/08/24 = £105,400.00 Balance as at 31/12/24 = £102,500.00
£100k barrier broken 1/4/25
Balance as at 31/08/25 = £ 95,450.00. Balance as at 31/12/25 = £ 91,100.00
SOA CALCULATOR (for DFW newbies): SOA Calculatorshe/her5 -
I was under the impression that the 12000 gas column incudes the standing charge, and similarly with electricity. It looks like you've added it in again. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.Qyburn said:
Northern Scotland figures come to ..So need to add 2 nil units, 1 12000 gas units and SR electric *29/31 - for all 14 billing regions - then take the average, IIRC add 5% VAT - to get to the £3280 cap level - quoted by the media.
So £101.20 + £1,536.97 + £205.02 + (29 x £1,679.95/31) = £ 3,414.75
+VAT = £ 3,585.49Electricity unit price = 54p/kWh
No idea how you average across the regions, you'd need subscriber numbers for each to get an actual UK average.
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In which case I got it wrong in my previous post. Sorry.t0rt0ise said:
I was under the impression that the 12000 gas column incudes the standing charge, and similarly with electricity. It looks like you've added it in again. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.Qyburn said:
Northern Scotland figures come to ..So need to add 2 nil units, 1 12000 gas units and SR electric *29/31 - for all 14 billing regions - then take the average, IIRC add 5% VAT - to get to the £3280 cap level - quoted by the media.
So £101.20 + £1,536.97 + £205.02 + (29 x £1,679.95/31) = £ 3,414.75
+VAT = £ 3,585.49Electricity unit price = 54p/kWh
No idea how you average across the regions, you'd need subscriber numbers for each to get an actual UK average.
So does that make the maths
Gas 12000 + (elec 3100-nil)×29/31 + elec nil ?
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What is happening on the 1st April has been clear since the chancellor's statement that energy prices 1st April 2023 will rise by 20% under the Energy Price Guarantee (EPG). Hammered home by Martin Lewis who also explained the Price cap (not the EPG) would likely decrease but not below the EPG.
What we now have is the normal media outlets confusing the public (some intentionally) however Martin can now come back on the scene and hammer it home again.
None of the above is difficult. It does not include rates for standing charges, regional variations or pence per kWh. You certainly don't need to have been a member of this forum or other energy forums to understand it.
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