Much easier to understand energy prices if it was always talked about in terms of price per unit

Mstty

Petriix said:

Mstty said:

Petriix said:

Personally I think most of the confusion stems from a kilowatt hour itself being needlessly hard to get your head around. I'd massively prefer the megajoule to be the accepted measure of energy, with power being measured in joules per hour.

1 joule = 1W x 1 second. 3,600 joules per hour = 1kW and 3.6MJ = 1kWh. Currently 1MJ of electricity costs roughly 10p and 1MJ gets you roughly 1 mile in a typical EV.

With a more understandable unit, the cost per unit would become easier to understand too. 

Nope, not for me I think you have based your whole easier to understand theory on what 10p gets you  and 1 miles in a typical? EV.

With the EPG potentially going to 42-43p per kWh or 3.6MJ how does that sit then with an extra easy to explain 10p gets you.....

If you wanted to add further confusion to the masses then yes I agree.

Lastly what do you do with all the power consumption labels and manuals?

You're somewhat missing the point: that, intuitively, people regard distance/size as a single unit and speed/change as a rate involving time e.g. miles and miles per hour or litres and litres per minute etc.. kWh sounds like a speed because of the 'hour' bit so it confuses people. 

Thanks for adding this additional information.

I don't think if people see kWh as a speed it confuses "people"(however many that is) it might even help them think this 1kwh heater runs at a speed of 1 kilowatt per hour. As long as that makes sense with the energy use label on the device they are running I don't think it matters to "people" how scientifically accurate it is.

ariarnia

from the conversations we've had in the last 6 months or so (and from threads on here) i dont think a lot of people think in kilowatt hours at all. 

they might no kwh but not think about what it means or they say watts or units (and 'units' on the gas bill confuse people as there not the units on the gas meter). 

MattMattMattUK

Mstty said:

Petriix said:

Mstty said:

Petriix said:

Personally I think most of the confusion stems from a kilowatt hour itself being needlessly hard to get your head around. I'd massively prefer the megajoule to be the accepted measure of energy, with power being measured in joules per hour.

1 joule = 1W x 1 second. 3,600 joules per hour = 1kW and 3.6MJ = 1kWh. Currently 1MJ of electricity costs roughly 10p and 1MJ gets you roughly 1 mile in a typical EV.

With a more understandable unit, the cost per unit would become easier to understand too. 

Nope, not for me I think you have based your whole easier to understand theory on what 10p gets you  and 1 miles in a typical? EV.

With the EPG potentially going to 42-43p per kWh or 3.6MJ how does that sit then with an extra easy to explain 10p gets you.....

If you wanted to add further confusion to the masses then yes I agree.

Lastly what do you do with all the power consumption labels and manuals?

You're somewhat missing the point: that, intuitively, people regard distance/size as a single unit and speed/change as a rate involving time e.g. miles and miles per hour or litres and litres per minute etc.. kWh sounds like a speed because of the 'hour' bit so it confuses people. 

Thanks for adding this additional information.

I don't think if people see kWh as a speed it confuses "people"(however many that is) it might even help them think this 1kwh heater runs at a speed of 1 kilowatt per hour. As long as that makes sense with the energy use label on the device they are running I don't think it matters to "people" how scientifically accurate it is.

I think the bigger issue in trying to get people to understand usage is the difference between peak and continual power draw. I have seen it pop up quite a few times where people think their oven will draw at full power continually, so their 4.5kW oven will use 4.5kWh per hour, where the reality is it might draw close to 4.5kW initially, but then it falls back to 50w whilst the fan runs and then it the element to maintain temperature, but apart from the initial period will not get close to 4.5kW draw again. Even less demanding tech, my TV is rated to draw 137w when in use, however it normally hovers around 96w. 

If people do not understand the basics then any detailed comparison becomes impossible, hence we have letter based energy efficiency ratings, with the actual detail normally fairly well hidden.

EssexHebridean

Petriix said:

Mstty said:

Petriix said:

Personally I think most of the confusion stems from a kilowatt hour itself being needlessly hard to get your head around. I'd massively prefer the megajoule to be the accepted measure of energy, with power being measured in joules per hour.

1 joule = 1W x 1 second. 3,600 joules per hour = 1kW and 3.6MJ = 1kWh. Currently 1MJ of electricity costs roughly 10p and 1MJ gets you roughly 1 mile in a typical EV.

With a more understandable unit, the cost per unit would become easier to understand too. 

Nope, not for me I think you have based your whole easier to understand theory on what 10p gets you  and 1 miles in a typical? EV.

With the EPG potentially going to 42-43p per kWh or 3.6MJ how does that sit then with an extra easy to explain 10p gets you.....

If you wanted to add further confusion to the masses then yes I agree.

Lastly what do you do with all the power consumption labels and manuals?

You're somewhat missing the point: that, intuitively, people regard distance/size as a single unit and speed/change as a rate involving time e.g. miles and miles per hour or litres and litres per minute etc.. kWh sounds like a speed because of the 'hour' bit so it confuses people. 

Hmmm...maybe that could subconsciously be a "thing" although I'm not sold on your Megajoule suggestion I'm afraid. I suspect ultimately whatever method of measurement was the commonly used one would be just as challenging for people to grasp purely because most people don't engage to the extent of really trying to understand it - even now, the very fact that Martin recently went through a very simple explainer around what "1kWh" actually means goes to show that this information isn't something which is routinely understood widely outside areas like this forum board.