Much easier to understand energy prices if it was always talked about in terms of price per unit

Petriix

Personally I think most of the confusion stems from a kilowatt hour itself being needlessly hard to get your head around. I'd massively prefer the megajoule to be the accepted measure of energy, with power being measured in joules per hour.

1 joule = 1W x 1 second. 3,600 joules per hour = 1kW and 3.6MJ = 1kWh. Currently 1MJ of electricity costs roughly 10p and 1MJ gets you roughly 1 mile in a typical EV.

With a more understandable unit, the cost per unit would become easier to understand too. 

Scot_39

ariarnia said:

Scot_39 said:

The unit rates are key - but many people are very naive about how many 10p or 34p they use daily, weekly or annually.

doesnt help that in home displays seem to quite often not have the right rates. i no part of the problem is that the rate is currently discounted but makes it harder for people who do want to casually keep track of use to get a grip on it. 

If the ihd is communicating, those rate details can sometimes be refreshed by the supplier on request.

I had to phone EOn when moved across to next accounting -  I think it was missed then as account transition happened across an April cap rise and things went kind of frozen for a bit.  When I mentioned the issue, as an aside to a DD payment issue around the / during the switch - the operator said she would request an update. About 3 days later - they were up to date.

They have updated within the day the last 2 EPG / cap changes.

And in my case - the discounted price after EPG.

And for a while now mines now even include the SC and VAT, unlike initial values when 1st installed.

I assume you at least always get correct kWh on yours.

My sisters SC is wrong, but the unit rate right.  So a bit annoying.  But she just accepts that.

My main annoyance as a multirate electric and no gas supply, it doesn't split peak and off peak. So have to use a spreadsheet between monthly statements.

Mstty

Petriix said:

Personally I think most of the confusion stems from a kilowatt hour itself being needlessly hard to get your head around. I'd massively prefer the megajoule to be the accepted measure of energy, with power being measured in joules per hour.

1 joule = 1W x 1 second. 3,600 joules per hour = 1kW and 3.6MJ = 1kWh. Currently 1MJ of electricity costs roughly 10p and 1MJ gets you roughly 1 mile in a typical EV.

With a more understandable unit, the cost per unit would become easier to understand too. 

Nope, not for me I think you have based your whole easier to understand theory on what 10p gets you  and 1 miles in a typical? EV.

With the EPG potentially going to 42-43p per kWh or 3.6MJ how does that sit then with an extra easy to explain 10p gets you.....

If you wanted to add further confusion to the masses then yes I agree.

Lastly what do you do with all the power consumption labels and manuals?

ariarnia

Scot_39 said:

I assume you at least always get correct kWh on yours.

ours has lived in a draw since it was given to us. we use the bright app or take a meter reading. but as a 'regular' on this board i'm not exactly the target audience  

theres been several people on here with a problem tho and its taken weeks for the rate to be updated. and that assumes they no the rate is wrong to ask for it to be refreshed. if there just looking at the total/pre set budget then they could be very easily misled about how much the energy there using costs and make bad lifestyle decisions based on that info.

id much prefer new smart meters didn't come with this toy and they had a qr code on them or something to one of the apps that pulls the data from the network. not 'instant' but most people dont need instant.  

drsquirrel

Sea_Shell said:

drsquirrel said:

michaels said:

And yet apparently it is done because people find standing charge and pence per unit too complicated to understand?!

Most people don't know how many units they use - I find the issue crazy but I believe this is the main reason.

It would be easier if the issue was forced though... then people would be forced to learn.

Maybe these figures need to be IN BIG TEXT on the top of every bill, so they can't be missed in the small print.   

But unless you're on smart meters, and have been for a little while, these figures themselves may not be accurate, depending on if any readings have been submitted.  So round in a circle we go again!!!

I'd say so too. The quality of billing between providers is wide.

I don't really know why I need to log in to check my usage or estimates as it is, they can just mention it right there in the email, is a hacker going to blackmail me with my power usage stats?

The other problem is moving between providers, you lose your history thus getting an idea of your annual usage is difficult. Since its all held centrally maybe this should be produced on every statement?

Some kind of standards of what is required on the statement should be brought in, its not like its some piece of massive red tape.

Scot_39

Petriix said:

Personally I think most of the confusion stems from a kilowatt hour itself being needlessly hard to get your head around. I'd massively prefer the megajoule to be the accepted measure of energy, with power being measured in joules per hour.

1 joule = 1W x 1 second. 3,600 joules per hour = 1kW and 3.6MJ = 1kWh. Currently 1MJ of electricity costs roughly 10p and 1MJ gets you roughly 1 mile in a typical EV.

With a more understandable unit, the cost per unit would become easier to understand too. 

Engineering world and real world is not full of physicists.

When was the last time you looked at a device rating label, power electronics, motor etc and saw a figure other than W or kW ?

The kW is simple for UK domestic users - who are used to the rule of thumb that a 1 bar fire - used approx 1kW power - run it for an hour - 1 kWh of energy = 1 bill unit for electric.

And next month - unless plans change - it won't be 10p it will be c12p etc.

Mstty

Scot_39 said:

Petriix said:

Personally I think most of the confusion stems from a kilowatt hour itself being needlessly hard to get your head around. I'd massively prefer the megajoule to be the accepted measure of energy, with power being measured in joules per hour.

1 joule = 1W x 1 second. 3,600 joules per hour = 1kW and 3.6MJ = 1kWh. Currently 1MJ of electricity costs roughly 10p and 1MJ gets you roughly 1 mile in a typical EV.

With a more understandable unit, the cost per unit would become easier to understand too. 

Engineering world and real world is not full of physicists.

When was the last time you looked at a device rating label, power electronics, motor etc and saw a figure other than W or kW ?

The kW is simple for UK domestic users - who are used to the rule of thumb that a 1 bar fire - used approx 1kW power - run it for an hour - 1 kWh of energy = 1 bill unit for electric.

And next month - unless plans change - it won't be 10p it will be c12p etc.

Amazing just what I said a few posts up lol🤔

Petriix

Mstty said:

Petriix said:

Personally I think most of the confusion stems from a kilowatt hour itself being needlessly hard to get your head around. I'd massively prefer the megajoule to be the accepted measure of energy, with power being measured in joules per hour.

1 joule = 1W x 1 second. 3,600 joules per hour = 1kW and 3.6MJ = 1kWh. Currently 1MJ of electricity costs roughly 10p and 1MJ gets you roughly 1 mile in a typical EV.

With a more understandable unit, the cost per unit would become easier to understand too. 

Nope, not for me I think you have based your whole easier to understand theory on what 10p gets you  and 1 miles in a typical? EV.

With the EPG potentially going to 42-43p per kWh or 3.6MJ how does that sit then with an extra easy to explain 10p gets you.....

If you wanted to add further confusion to the masses then yes I agree.

Lastly what do you do with all the power consumption labels and manuals?

You're somewhat missing the point: that, intuitively, people regard distance/size as a single unit and speed/change as a rate involving time e.g. miles and miles per hour or litres and litres per minute etc.. kWh sounds like a speed because of the 'hour' bit so it confuses people. 

sevenhills

Do water companies have the same system, where different areas pay a different standing charges because different areas have different pipework and reservoirs?

ariarnia

sevenhills said:

Do water companies have the same system, where different areas pay a different standing charges because different areas have different pipework and reservoirs?

yes. ofwat do a similar job to ofgem in setting the amount of profit a water company is allowed to make. the difference is theres only one supplier in an area so the regional rate can also include fines for that company if there not meeting targets for things like repairs 

theres some more info here. 

https://www.ofwat.gov.uk/regulated-companies/price-review/