Is now the right time to move?

Gavin83

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

SallyCinnamon said:

When we ported our Santander mortgage in 2021, I'd assumed we'd just be increasing the borrowing on our existing product, but we had to rake a new, additional mortgage for the extra we wanted to borrow. At the time, it was actually a slightly cheaper interest rate

Yes, 2021 was great time for sellers to grab a good price for their property.

Of course 2021 was a great time for buyers too; most needing a mortgage will have locked in record low interest rates for at least five years and will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Conversely anyone heeding your stock advice to wait when they could have bought must be absolutely kicking themselves with house prices now roughly 10% higher than they were back then and, much worse, mortgage rates something like 300% higher. Even worse many will have been paying off their landlord's mortgage instead of their own for the last two years - that's two years of their life they'll never get back.

For the OP, as many of us have pointed out over the years and as shown above, trying to time the housing market is a mug's game. If you find an ideal house at a price you can afford then that's the time to buy and enjoy and live your life in your new home.

Not such a great time for buyers really, why would you want to lock into peak debt in a rising rate environment?

Huh? A rising rate environment is exactly why you would want to lock into record low interest rates! The whole point is that you couldn't care less what happens to rates for the next five years as you know exactly what your fixed monthly payments will be.

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

However the OP is a seller not a buyer, and their flat isn`t even on the market yet, so as you underline with your point about mortgage rates this isn`t such a good time for them to be selling.

The OP is both, they are doing what most normal people do, selling one property to buy another bigger property. If they've outgrown their current home then now is the perfect time to be selling.

Mortgage approvals at their lowest for 15 years say that many people don`t agree with your first statement

Why on earth would they not fix and practically guarantee that their monthly mortgage payments will continue to rise for the foreseeable future?

There's no way to predict that. The suggestions at the moment are that interest rates will peak this year, with 1 more increase and then start to fall. It's all well and good to say lock in for 5 years and not worry about it but if interest rates are sub 1% again in a few years and I'd locked in for 5 years I'd be gutted paying hundreds of pounds more a month than I otherwise would.

Ultimately as I said no one can predict this. However it is quite telling that mortgage rates for a 5 year fix is less than for a 2 year fix. It certainly indicates which way the banks think it'll go.

Sarah1Mitty2

Gavin83 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

SallyCinnamon said:

When we ported our Santander mortgage in 2021, I'd assumed we'd just be increasing the borrowing on our existing product, but we had to rake a new, additional mortgage for the extra we wanted to borrow. At the time, it was actually a slightly cheaper interest rate

Yes, 2021 was great time for sellers to grab a good price for their property.

Of course 2021 was a great time for buyers too; most needing a mortgage will have locked in record low interest rates for at least five years and will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Conversely anyone heeding your stock advice to wait when they could have bought must be absolutely kicking themselves with house prices now roughly 10% higher than they were back then and, much worse, mortgage rates something like 300% higher. Even worse many will have been paying off their landlord's mortgage instead of their own for the last two years - that's two years of their life they'll never get back.

For the OP, as many of us have pointed out over the years and as shown above, trying to time the housing market is a mug's game. If you find an ideal house at a price you can afford then that's the time to buy and enjoy and live your life in your new home.

Not such a great time for buyers really, why would you want to lock into peak debt in a rising rate environment?

Huh? A rising rate environment is exactly why you would want to lock into record low interest rates! The whole point is that you couldn't care less what happens to rates for the next five years as you know exactly what your fixed monthly payments will be.

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

However the OP is a seller not a buyer, and their flat isn`t even on the market yet, so as you underline with your point about mortgage rates this isn`t such a good time for them to be selling.

The OP is both, they are doing what most normal people do, selling one property to buy another bigger property. If they've outgrown their current home then now is the perfect time to be selling.

Mortgage approvals at their lowest for 15 years say that many people don`t agree with your first statement

Why on earth would they not fix and practically guarantee that their monthly mortgage payments will continue to rise for the foreseeable future?

There's no way to predict that. The suggestions at the moment are that interest rates will peak this year, with 1 more increase and then start to fall. It's all well and good to say lock in for 5 years and not worry about it but if interest rates are sub 1% again in a few years and I'd locked in for 5 years I'd be gutted paying hundreds of pounds more a month than I otherwise would.

Ultimately as I said no one can predict this. However it is quite telling that mortgage rates for a 5 year fix is less than for a 2 year fix. It certainly indicates which way the banks think it'll go.

Why would rates start to fall, it is low rates that have caused the mess we are in, all the indications are for rates to stay "high"  (which is very low by historical standards making your assumption all the more confusing?) as they try to normalise the financial system away from emergency measures.

MobileSaver

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

SallyCinnamon said:

When we ported our Santander mortgage in 2021, I'd assumed we'd just be increasing the borrowing on our existing product, but we had to rake a new, additional mortgage for the extra we wanted to borrow. At the time, it was actually a slightly cheaper interest rate

Yes, 2021 was great time for sellers to grab a good price for their property.

Of course 2021 was a great time for buyers too; most needing a mortgage will have locked in record low interest rates for at least five years and will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Conversely anyone heeding your stock advice to wait when they could have bought must be absolutely kicking themselves with house prices now roughly 10% higher than they were back then and, much worse, mortgage rates something like 300% higher. Even worse many will have been paying off their landlord's mortgage instead of their own for the last two years - that's two years of their life they'll never get back.

For the OP, as many of us have pointed out over the years and as shown above, trying to time the housing market is a mug's game. If you find an ideal house at a price you can afford then that's the time to buy and enjoy and live your life in your new home.

Not such a great time for buyers really, why would you want to lock into peak debt in a rising rate environment?

Huh? A rising rate environment is exactly why you would want to lock into record low interest rates! The whole point is that you couldn't care less what happens to rates for the next five years as you know exactly what your fixed monthly payments will be.

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

However the OP is a seller not a buyer, and their flat isn`t even on the market yet, so as you underline with your point about mortgage rates this isn`t such a good time for them to be selling.

The OP is both, they are doing what most normal people do, selling one property to buy another bigger property. If they've outgrown their current home then now is the perfect time to be selling.

Mortgage approvals at their lowest for 15 years say that many people don`t agree with your first statement

I have absolutely no idea what the relevance/relationship is between the number of mortgage approvals and whether or not those mortgages are locked into fixed-rates? Perhaps you can explain for the benefit of the OP?

The OP has outgrown their current home so is looking to move to a bigger place with (naturally enough) a bigger mortgage. You say we are in a rising rate environment so please can you explain to the OP why you think they should not lock into a fixed-rate? Why on earth would they not fix and practically guarantee that their monthly mortgage payments will continue to rise for the foreseeable future?

My view is that the OP should wait for interest rates to settle, and for the effect of those rates to become clear before making a move, that way they will avoided down-valuations and buyers pulling out etc. Who needs that kind of drama really?

Wait for how long? One year? Two years? Fourteen years like you?

That kind of "drama" is part and parcel of selling a house, it's not something you can avoid. Regardless of whether the market is slow or super-hot, something like one in three transactions fail to complete.

Gavin83 said:

MobileSaver said:

Why on earth would they not fix and practically guarantee that their monthly mortgage payments will continue to rise for the foreseeable future?

There's no way to predict that. ...  but if interest rates are sub 1% again in a few years and I'd locked in for 5 years I'd be gutted paying hundreds of pounds more a month than I otherwise would.

Just to be clear, I wasn't predicting anything myself but simply responding to Crashy's comment regarding a "rising rate environment" and specifically that if he believes rates will continue to rise then why wouldn't you lock in now at a low rate.

Having said that, all the predictions I've seen suggest interest rates will rise a bit over the next 12 months or so but won't be that much different from now in five years time. I've not seen anyone implying we'll see sub 1% in the foreseeable future.

So for the OP, in my opinion, sticking with their fixed-rate is the best course of action right now and if they could fix now for a further five years at a good rate then that gives them the peace of mind of knowing exactly what their housing costs will be for five more years.

newsgroupmonkey_

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

SallyCinnamon said:

When we ported our Santander mortgage in 2021, I'd assumed we'd just be increasing the borrowing on our existing product, but we had to rake a new, additional mortgage for the extra we wanted to borrow. At the time, it was actually a slightly cheaper interest rate

Yes, 2021 was great time for sellers to grab a good price for their property.

Of course 2021 was a great time for buyers too; most needing a mortgage will have locked in record low interest rates for at least five years and will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Conversely anyone heeding your stock advice to wait when they could have bought must be absolutely kicking themselves with house prices now roughly 10% higher than they were back then and, much worse, mortgage rates something like 300% higher. Even worse many will have been paying off their landlord's mortgage instead of their own for the last two years - that's two years of their life they'll never get back.

For the OP, as many of us have pointed out over the years and as shown above, trying to time the housing market is a mug's game. If you find an ideal house at a price you can afford then that's the time to buy and enjoy and live your life in your new home.

Not such a great time for buyers really, why would you want to lock into peak debt in a rising rate environment?

Huh? A rising rate environment is exactly why you would want to lock into record low interest rates! The whole point is that you couldn't care less what happens to rates for the next five years as you know exactly what your fixed monthly payments will be.

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

However the OP is a seller not a buyer, and their flat isn`t even on the market yet, so as you underline with your point about mortgage rates this isn`t such a good time for them to be selling.

The OP is both, they are doing what most normal people do, selling one property to buy another bigger property. If they've outgrown their current home then now is the perfect time to be selling.

Mortgage approvals at their lowest for 15 years say that many people don`t agree with your first statement

I have absolutely no idea what the relevance/relationship is between the number of mortgage approvals and whether or not those mortgages are locked into fixed-rates? Perhaps you can explain for the benefit of the OP?

The OP has outgrown their current home so is looking to move to a bigger place with (naturally enough) a bigger mortgage. You say we are in a rising rate environment so please can you explain to the OP why you think they should not lock into a fixed-rate? Why on earth would they not fix and practically guarantee that their monthly mortgage payments will continue to rise for the foreseeable future?

First point - the relevance is that there is no rush to fix at historically low rates - because prices are too high! Mortgage approvals are falling as people stay away from the market, locking into a fixed rate last year just locks your debt payments for a while, it doesn`t prevent the house becoming worth less than you paid due to other people staying away from the market.

Second point - as explained a few times now - if they wait for interest rates to do their job of cutting prices they will be locking into a fixed rate on LESS DEBT in the future.

To re-cap (again) My view is that the OP should wait for interest rates to settle, and for the effect of those rates to become clear before making a move, that way they will avoided down-valuations and buyers pulling out etc. Who needs that kind of drama really?

Right, let's make this clear. OP wants to sell and buy to move up in the market

What you're saying is, that the OP shouldn't buy a house based on some absolute nonsense based on some figures you've chosen from the media outlet that suits your narrative.

But prices are too high, so it's probably worth selling.

Do you also suggest that they rent a bedsit in Edinburgh, waiting for the inevitable crash to happen?

As it stands, Nationwide have said prices are dropping (but not by huge amounts). Halifax have said they've actually gone up since the beginning of the year.

Mortgage approvals mean nothing if there's nothing to buy and/or FTBs aren't returning to the market. The number of houses on the market is at an all-time low. I know from inside that the numbers of surveys have dropped through the floor (and are slowly picking up). But what does that have to do with house prices? Well not much actually. If there's only 1 house available and 5 buyers, then the price is at a premium. If there is 1 house available and 1 buyer, the price isn't actually going to drop. The problem is when you have 5 houses and 1 buyer. But there's very little on the market (potential to be 21% down on one report I read).

Either way, it's absolutely and totally irrelevant. If the OP has something to sell and something to buy, then why worry about negative equity? The only people that lose out with negative equity or the rise or dip in house prices are people who don't own a house. Like you.

Gavin83

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

MobileSaver said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

SallyCinnamon said:

When we ported our Santander mortgage in 2021, I'd assumed we'd just be increasing the borrowing on our existing product, but we had to rake a new, additional mortgage for the extra we wanted to borrow. At the time, it was actually a slightly cheaper interest rate

Yes, 2021 was great time for sellers to grab a good price for their property.

Of course 2021 was a great time for buyers too; most needing a mortgage will have locked in record low interest rates for at least five years and will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Conversely anyone heeding your stock advice to wait when they could have bought must be absolutely kicking themselves with house prices now roughly 10% higher than they were back then and, much worse, mortgage rates something like 300% higher. Even worse many will have been paying off their landlord's mortgage instead of their own for the last two years - that's two years of their life they'll never get back.

For the OP, as many of us have pointed out over the years and as shown above, trying to time the housing market is a mug's game. If you find an ideal house at a price you can afford then that's the time to buy and enjoy and live your life in your new home.

Not such a great time for buyers really, why would you want to lock into peak debt in a rising rate environment?

Huh? A rising rate environment is exactly why you would want to lock into record low interest rates! The whole point is that you couldn't care less what happens to rates for the next five years as you know exactly what your fixed monthly payments will be.

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

However the OP is a seller not a buyer, and their flat isn`t even on the market yet, so as you underline with your point about mortgage rates this isn`t such a good time for them to be selling.

The OP is both, they are doing what most normal people do, selling one property to buy another bigger property. If they've outgrown their current home then now is the perfect time to be selling.

Mortgage approvals at their lowest for 15 years say that many people don`t agree with your first statement

I have absolutely no idea what the relevance/relationship is between the number of mortgage approvals and whether or not those mortgages are locked into fixed-rates? Perhaps you can explain for the benefit of the OP?

The OP has outgrown their current home so is looking to move to a bigger place with (naturally enough) a bigger mortgage. You say we are in a rising rate environment so please can you explain to the OP why you think they should not lock into a fixed-rate? Why on earth would they not fix and practically guarantee that their monthly mortgage payments will continue to rise for the foreseeable future?

My view is that the OP should wait for interest rates to settle, and for the effect of those rates to become clear before making a move, that way they will avoided down-valuations and buyers pulling out etc. Who needs that kind of drama really?

Wait for how long? One year? Two years? Fourteen years like you?

That kind of "drama" is part and parcel of selling a house, it's not something you can avoid. Regardless of whether the market is slow or super-hot, something like one in three transactions fail to complete.

Gavin83 said:

MobileSaver said:

Why on earth would they not fix and practically guarantee that their monthly mortgage payments will continue to rise for the foreseeable future?

There's no way to predict that. ...  but if interest rates are sub 1% again in a few years and I'd locked in for 5 years I'd be gutted paying hundreds of pounds more a month than I otherwise would.

Just to be clear, I wasn't predicting anything myself but simply responding to Crashy's comment regarding a "rising rate environment" and specifically that if he believes rates will continue to rise then why wouldn't you lock in now at a low rate.

Having said that, all the predictions I've seen suggest interest rates will rise a bit over the next 12 months or so but won't be that much different from now in five years time. I've not seen anyone implying we'll see sub 1% in the foreseeable future.

So for the OP, in my opinion, sticking with their fixed-rate is the best course of action right now and if they could fix now for a further five years at a good rate then that gives them the peace of mind of knowing exactly what their housing costs will be for five more years.

I wouldn't really expect rates at sub 1% in a few years time but I wouldn't be surprised if they're a fair bit lower than they are now. I think the latest predictions is somewhere around 3% next year and around 2% in 2025. It depends on the economy though. If inflation falls and we find ourselves in a recession they could plummet.

Ultimately it's all guess work though. No one knows what'll happen in a few years time. It's a gamble but as someone re-mortgaging at the moment I'm leaning towards a 2 year fix expecting lower rates in a few years. I won't know if this has paid off until 2025.