Virgin - Breach of contract with price increase?

SChitmehard

Up_against_it said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Up_against_it said:

I hear what you both say and agree that Virgin have never had an automatic uplift clause in any contract. The latest email confirms that and states from April 2024 they will include the automatic uplift clause unless I opt out before April 2023. Indeed, they give me until the end of March 2023 the option to cancel and move on to another provider. Great for them, not for me.

My question is whether they can legally do this. I accepted a contract for them to supply at an agreed price for the next 18 months. They seem to think that they can change the agreed terms on the basis of take it or leave. What's the point of a contract if the supplying company determines the rules as and when it suits them? I'm sure if I said to them that I'd changed my mind and wanted to pay less or leave before the end of the agreed terms that they would throw all the legals at me. It seems a very one-sided arrangement.

Yes they can, it's all in the T&C's. If you don't want to accept you can leave penalty free.

But it's not in the T&Cs. Certainly not in the ones I have downloaded relating to MY contract with THEM. I fully understand that I can leave penalty free if I don't agree to the terms. My point is that I agreed a contract between myself and Virgin in which you would reasonably expect the agreed terms to last for the duration of the contract. Virgin would hold me to account if I broke the terms. Why do they feel it acceptable to break the agreement with a take-it-leave-it attitude?

I've got a contract with EDF energy to supply me at stupidly low prices until August 2024. I agreed it on a 3 year deal and they supply at that price without question.

Virgin have recently been advertising for new customers offering prices far less than I currently pay for a similar package. The Government outlawed that practice for motor and home insurance but never went far enough to encompass all utility companies. 

I still can't understand why they are legally permitted to break an agreement when I wouldn't have a leg to stand on if I attempted the same.

That's why they HAVE to give you the right to leave penalty free as it's a one sided variation of the contract. When they put into the contract that they can increase the price every April by CPI, then you are stuck as you have accepted that as part of the contract term, although it soundsunfair as you do not know how much you will be paying as it depends on CPI

lincolnlawyer

The contract terms stipulate a specific service, with specific range of bandwidth for a "fixed term".

If they want to vary ("breach") the contract one-sidedly and be so kind to release the other party from the extra fees on a month's notice. Then why do they not have to cover your admin fees and additional price difference costs to be able to enjoy the same service of the same spec with another provider for the remainder term of the binding contract ??

A contract that includes several clauses against the consumer side for breaching it. Does this not fall under unfair contracts and should be challenged in court?

It is not the amount but the principle, I too have been with Virgin for many years and under an 18month fixed term contract that does not contain a variation clause. Yet they increased the price once a month after signing in 2022 and now plan doing so again, so breaching the contract twice.

onomatopoeia99

lincolnlawyer said:

The contract terms stipulate a specific service, with specific range of bandwidth for a "fixed term".

If they want to vary ("breach") the contract one-sidedly and be so kind to release the other party from the extra fees on a month's notice. Then why do they not have to cover your admin fees and additional price difference costs to be able to enjoy the same service of the same spec with another provider for the remainder term of the binding contract ??

A contract that includes several clauses against the consumer side for breaching it. Does this not fall under unfair contracts and should be challenged in court?

If you feel it can be challenged in court you are completely within your rights to sue them for the breach, and if you win receive damages for you quantifiable losses, or if you lose you get to pay their costs (different rules about costs apply on the small claims track I think).

Alirara

The issue here isn't so much this year's increase ..which is pretty steep ... £21 a month for me .... but the new policy of having annual increases of whatever the R.P.I is, plus 3.9% .... without the option of being able to leave. This effectively means you will be bound by the contract you signed and tough if you find it difficult to manage. So a contract that works for Virgin ...and which they don't appear to need to honour ... and one that doesn't work so well for the customer, and one that you are legally bound to honour. What the customer can do ..apart from leave on mass (retention this time but not after that), isn't very clear; especially given that other media companies are doing the same ... I thought competition was suppose to be good!! 

Up_against_it

Alirara said:

The issue here isn't so much this year's increase ..which is pretty steep ... £21 a month for me .... but the new policy of having annual increases of whatever the R.P.I is, plus 3.9% .... without the option of being able to leave. This effectively means you will be bound by the contract you signed and tough if you find it difficult to manage. So a contract that works for Virgin ...and which they don't appear to need to honour ... and one that doesn't work so well for the customer, and one that you are legally bound to honour. What the customer can do ..apart from leave on mass (retention this time but not after that), isn't very clear; especially given that other media companies are doing the same ... I thought competition was suppose to be good!! 

And you've hit the nail on the head. If I agree to the new contract then I also agree to the automatic uplift every year. Expansion should come from profit not an automatic uplift sanctioned by government. I do fear that respective governments have allowed this to happen in order to improve 'digital society'. My connection came in the late 90s and they ruined every pavement and road while they installed it. Now they continue on the expansion route, paid for by current subscribers, while offering much better deals for new customers who buy into the concept.

I know I can leave and select a new provider, but they are now all the same. CPI + 3.9% every April without question. Wish I could demand that with my wages.

Ryan_Holden

I'm in the same boat here, I'm about 12 months into an 18 month contract of £30 pcm and I've been sent a letter saying it's going up £7.

I can afford this, but that's not the point. I can't find anything in the Ts and Cs I've got that says it's acceptable, but the website links you to a myriad of different Ts & Cs for different contracts so I've been unable to decipher it anymore.

Can't help but wonder what the point of a contract even is?

Edit - on phoning, the auto system offered me £3.50 pcm without even questioning it.

Edit 2 - got a call back where Virgin are offering a £5.60 discount as of next bill without having to renew contract, meaning March and April at £24.40 followed by May/June/July/August at £31.40. Still pushing for the full £7, out of principle, because my actual contract document makes no reference to the charges.

Edit 3 - And just like that, the entire £7 is magically able to be knocked off.

The sooner the regulator gets this dishonest practice under control the better. 2 phonecalls and a bit of savvy talk is all it took to completely wipe out my rise, whereas I'm sure there are plenty of people who wouldn't be comfortable enough to do that.

hareng

Worth a read https://broadbanddeals.co.uk/guides/can-my-broadband-provider-increase-prices-during-my-contract/

List of Broadband Suppliers and how much the increase is. Not all ISP are listed.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/9479-broadband-price-increases-2023

Just checked, last 2 years with BT that went up 31 March both years mid contract. "Our prices changed on 31 Mar" its in the Terms and Conditions.

My advice, get away from the biggies if your out of contract, they all do it.
In fact the one we have just signed up for did later make an advertising slogan "we wont put our prices up mid contract" and its not listed above, in fact dropped it from £35 to £30 p/m 500meg download/upload current.

Up_against_it

Ryan_Holden said:

I'm in the same boat here, I'm about 12 months into an 18 month contract of £30 pcm and I've been sent a letter saying it's going up £7.

I can afford this, but that's not the point. I can't find anything in the Ts and Cs I've got that says it's acceptable, but the website links you to a myriad of different Ts & Cs for different contracts so I've been unable to decipher it anymore.

Can't help but wonder what the point of a contract even is?

Edit - on phoning, the auto system offered me £3.50 pcm without even questioning it.

Edit 2 - got a call back where Virgin are offering a £5.60 discount as of next bill without having to renew contract, meaning March and April at £24.40 followed by May/June/July/August at £31.40. Still pushing for the full £7, out of principle, because my actual contract document makes no reference to the charges.

Edit 3 - And just like that, the entire £7 is magically able to be knocked off.

The sooner the regulator gets this dishonest practice under control the better. 2 phonecalls and a bit of savvy talk is all it took to completely wipe out my rise, whereas I'm sure there are plenty of people who wouldn't be comfortable enough to do that.

Called today. The operator was very helpful and started the convo with "I assume you are calling about the dreaded letter" before the security check. They know people are annoyed by this and they know it doesn't legally stand. After befriending the guy he admitted that the reliance is on most customers not bothering to question the increase. Those that do get an automatic discount of £3.50 while sitting in the queue if they press 1. Don't accept it and wait for an operator. Because it's retentions you will not be waiting long. Upshot is, the operator agrees it's unfair and offers a deal until expiry of contract that is less than you currently pay. Be polite, firm and ready to leave if not satisfied. The call lasted around 15 minutes and I saved about £20 quid on my current deal until it expires in January. Not so much, but I don't earn £80 an hour and I won't be paying the £7 increase each month because I bothered to tell them so.

Ryan_Holden

Great to hear you got a good result.

Up_against_it

Ryan_Holden said:

Great to hear you got a good result.

Because of your suggestion, Ryan, I saved money. A simple call, simple result and the money stays in my bank, not theirs. If anyone has the uplift from Virgin, call them. Negotiate the uplift and argue to stay the same. In my experience it works and they will agree to YOUR terms rather than lose you.