Buying flat awful experience

F37A

NameUnavailable said:

You can and probably should get a copy of the lease before going ahead with a purchase. You can also check the basic lease details for £3 on the land registry website. No need to spend £££'s with solicitors to find this stuff out.

NameUnavailable said:

You can and probably should get a copy of the lease before going ahead with a purchase. You can also check the basic lease details for £3 on the land registry website. No need to spend £££'s with solicitors to find this stuff out.

On a seperate transaction I asked the vendor for the lease they refused |(vendor will have the lease) and want me to cough up money on instructing solicitors before I see the lease.

I'd need to check what's on LR matches the full lease. Is it the title register here that captures the lease? or part of the lease?

https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry
I've looked on here and found a 5 pager which has some info but nowhere near as comprehensive as the 25 pager lease document

EssexHebridean

F37A said:

EssexHebridean said:

What on earth are you doing to be spending 5k a time without even getting to exchange? 

EssexHebridean said:

What on earth are you doing to be spending 5k a time without even getting to exchange? 

I was 3 weeks from exchange. Just searches left. I could and should have approached differently but solicitors want to milk you as well as agent so don't tell you anything. It was 500 broker cost, 800 survey and 3.5k solicitors

If that £3500 is just the routine work and the standard documents (including searches at around £400 max in most cases) ask the solicitor for a full breakdown of the costs as that is very expensive. Was this a solicitor “recommended” by the estate agent or mortgage lender by any chance? (Oh - and the bad news is that if the searches had not yet been instructed you probably weren’t as close to exchange as you thought, either). How much were you quoted for just the legal fees at the start? Did you get quotes from a couple of other firms as well? 

Good solicitors do not want to “milk” anyone - indeed, they view a FTB conveyancing client as a great opportunity to add to their client base for the future as if things go well they know they are likely to get repeat business and recommendations. The agent is largely irrelevant on costs for you as a buyer as they shouldn’t be charging you anything! 

F37A

EssexHebridean said:

F37A said:

EssexHebridean said:

What on earth are you doing to be spending 5k a time without even getting to exchange? 

EssexHebridean said:

What on earth are you doing to be spending 5k a time without even getting to exchange? 

I was 3 weeks from exchange. Just searches left. I could and should have approached differently but solicitors want to milk you as well as agent so don't tell you anything. It was 500 broker cost, 800 survey and 3.5k solicitors

If that £3500 is just the routine work and the standard documents (including searches at around £400 max in most cases) ask the solicitor for a full breakdown of the costs as that is very expensive. Was this a solicitor “recommended” by the estate agent or mortgage lender by any chance? (Oh - and the bad news is that if the searches had not yet been instructed you probably weren’t as close to exchange as you thought, either). How much were you quoted for just the legal fees at the start? Did you get quotes from a couple of other firms as well? 

Good solicitors do not want to “milk” anyone - indeed, they view a FTB conveyancing client as a great opportunity to add to their client base for the future as if things go well they know they are likely to get repeat business and recommendations. The agent is largely irrelevant on costs for you as a buyer as they shouldn’t be charging you anything! 

So that 3.5k is everything up to searches (i.e no searches were carried out). It's an international firm of solicitors and no it wasn't recommended by agent. I wanted a good solicitor for a leasehold purchase given complexity. I've asked for breakdown just now. I did in the beginning in terms of quotes but other firms just hand you an underqualified conveyancer whereas I wanted a solicitor looking at it. 

If the solicitor was ethical or good they would have asked me to do things in different order rather than bankrupting me. 

EssexHebridean

Ask friend and family for recommendations of who they used and would recommend. It’s like everything in life - if you choose to go ”designer” it comes with a price tag - and the designer label, while perhaps impressive to some, doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting better quality. I’d say likely you should chalk this one up to experience but learn from it. 

As an example - MrEH works for a “prestige” international firm - their conveyancing charges are in the region of double what the firm I work for (small, local high street firm) charges - partly due to location- his firm is central London based, mine is on the outskirts. Neither outfit would charge anything like £3.5k for an abortive flat purchase with just standard work carried out though. 

The order of work is also pretty clearly prescribed - and usually the searches would be one of the earlier jobs.

Why did you not instruct an independent surveyor? 

UnderOffer

So that 3.5k is everything up to searches (i.e no searches were carried out). 

You spent 3.5k on a failed purchase? I don’t think the issue is a leased flat, but the solicitors you’ve chosen. 

user1977

I agree £3.5k sounds an absurdly high fee, especially for a transaction which didn't get that close to completion, and presumably for a property at a relatively modest price level.

F37A

UnderOffer said:

So that 3.5k is everything up to searches (i.e no searches were carried out). 

You spent 3.5k on a failed purchase? I don’t think the issue is a leased flat, but the solicitors you’ve chosen. 

But given the level of corruption with leasehold it is reasonable to go for a good solicitor. Look at all these people on unsellable ground rent flat purchases or cladding problems as mortgage prisoners - I don't want to end up like that.

EssexHebridean

user1977 said:

I agree £3.5k sounds an absurdly high fee, especially for a transaction which didn't get that close to completion, and presumably for a property at a relatively modest price level.

It is - it’s the sort of fee I’d expect to see being charged by a “prestige” central London firm who don’t really want that level of “small fry” business and hope that the prospective client will go away when they see the cost. (And generally, where the recommended several quotes are obtained prior to instructing, that’s exactly what would happen when client sees that actually, “Groats, Bedknobs and Broomsticks & Partners” in the local high street, who their best mate used when they bought and said were great, would charge fees of around a third of that level!). Not all clients are particularly desirable for larger firms or those who market themselves as “prestige” - and the OP would be unlikely to create lots of lucrative future business for them at a level they would want. 

Like everything in life - it comes down to choice. If someone wants to buy a Porsche to drive to Tesco once a week, then if they can afford it, great, but they shouldn’t kid themselves that they are getting value for money. And, allowing that they know in advance how much the Porsche will cost to buy compared to a Ford Fiesta, they also know ahead of time quite how poor that VFM actually is. 

EssexHebridean

F37A said:

UnderOffer said:

So that 3.5k is everything up to searches (i.e no searches were carried out). 

You spent 3.5k on a failed purchase? I don’t think the issue is a leased flat, but the solicitors you’ve chosen. 

But given the level of corruption with leasehold it is reasonable to go for a good solicitor. Look at all these people on unsellable ground rent flat purchases or cladding problems as mortgage prisoners - I don't want to end up like that.

Higher fees do not necessary mean “better”. Look for a High Street firm that is part of the “Conveyancing Quality Scheme”.make sure that the solicitor you instruct is experienced in leasehold. (And indeed that they know when searches need to be done!) 

F37A

EssexHebridean said:

user1977 said:

I agree £3.5k sounds an absurdly high fee, especially for a transaction which didn't get that close to completion, and presumably for a property at a relatively modest price level.

It is - it’s the sort of fee I’d expect to see being charged by a “prestige” central London firm who don’t really want that level of “small fry” business and hope that the prospective client will go away when they see the cost. (And generally, where the recommended several quotes are obtained prior to instructing, that’s exactly what would happen when client sees that actually, “Groats, Bedknobs and Broomsticks & Partners” in the local high street, who their best mate used when they bought and said were great, would charge fees of around a third of that level!). Not all clients are particularly desirable for larger firms or those who market themselves as “prestige” - and the OP would be unlikely to create lots of lucrative future business for them at a level they would want. 

Like everything in life - it comes down to choice. If someone wants to buy a Porsche to drive to Tesco once a week, then if they can afford it, great, but they shouldn’t kid themselves that they are getting value for money. And, allowing that they know in advance how much the Porsche will cost to buy compared to a Ford Fiesta, they also know ahead of time quite how poor that VFM actually is. 

I wonder what a reasonable rate is for a solicitor to do conveyancing on flat in london for around 250k purchase