1977 Rent Act Tenancy - Nightmare Situation

propertyrental

Woofiedog said:

propertyrental said:

Yes.

Try quoting the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985  S3  to them both!

3 Duty to inform tenant of assignment of landlord’s interest.
(1)If the interest of the landlord under a tenancy of premises which consist of or include a dwelling is assigned, the new landlord shall give notice in writing of the assignment, and of his name and address, to the tenant not later than the next day on which rent is payable under the tenancy or, if that is within two months of the assignment, the end of that period of two months.
(2)If trustees consititute the new landlord, a collective description of the trustes as the trustees of the trust in question may be given as the name of the landlord, and where such a collective description is given—
(a)the address of the new landlord may be given as the address from which the affairs of the trust are conducted, and
(b)a change in the persons who are for the time being the trustees of the trust shall not be treated as an assignment of the interest of the landlord.

(3)A person who is the new landlord under a tenancy falling within subsection (1) and who fails, without reasonable excuse to give the notice required by that subsection, commits a summary offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

[F1(3A)The person who was the landlord under the tenancy immediately before the assignment (“the old landlord”) shall be liable to the tenant in respect of any breach of any covenant, condition or agreement under the tenancy occurring before the end of the relevant period in like manner as if the interest assigned were still vested in him; and where the new landlord is also liable to the tenant in respect of any such breach occurring within that period, he and the old landlord shall be jointly and severally liable in respect of it.

Have any of them actually asked for rent?

And if you have any issues (eg a repair needed) try demanding it of the old landlord, quoting the Act and S3A above.

Note prosecution under the Act would be done by the council or Trading Standards I believe. A private prosecution would be hard, and the police won't be interested.....

Yes, they have asked for rent and I know who to contact for maintenance. But I won't pay the rent over until I know what the legal situation is regarding liability. I am entitled to clarity on who I am dealing with.

If they've asked for rent, use the  Landlord & Tenant Act 1985   S1:

sevenhills

Not paying rent gives them the upper hand if their motive is sinister.
Local councils help tenants when landlords are failing to maintain there buildings. Pay your rent.

theartfullodger

Woofiedog said:

theartfullodger said:

You do not have to own a place to be landlord.  Just the right/authority to rent it out in your name ("your" being human or corporate).

But aiui no rent is due unless you been served with name & address of "the landlord".

More importantly have been served notice (s) compliant with s48 & s3?  If not no rent due (as before) -s48 - or possible fines and criminal record (s3).

Suggest you 'phone the experts in landlord/tenant matters, including rent act tenancies, Shelter, 0808 800 4444.

Best wishes.

Thanks for your answer. I have tried Shelter but they don't answer the phone to anyone not about to be made homeless. All I have are private legal firms charging £250 ph. I can't afford these.

I humbly suggest you also ask, calm & polite, I suggest in writing/email, each of the possibles what authority do they claim they have that gives them the right to be YOUR landlord: See what comes back

(eg it is quite common for some owners to have an agreement (a tenancy agreement ) with a lettings agent granting agent right to sublet whole property to someone else).  Often as part of a "guaranteed rent" scheme/scam.   In these cases there are two landlords & two tenants:

1. Owner (as landlord) has tenant letting agent (with right to rent out. )
2.  Letting agent (as landlord) has tenant (human occupant).

Both landlords may be humans or corporate bodies (eg a company).

Have you been served with notice(s) compliant with s48 & s3 please?? See this link (the change of landlord bit..) which outlines what you should already have had.


There are quite a few owners & landlords who don;t know what they are doing: When I started as a landlord in 2000 I made stupid, expensive, complicated & long-drawn out mistakes.  Oh my stupidity !  Oh the hubris! (I've never had rent act tenancies btw..)

You probably know all there is to know about rent act tenancies but this may be worth a read for you or someone else in a similar position. See...
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/renting/regulated_tenancies.

Shelter are an overworked charity with limited resources.  Workload possibly related to 13 years of Tory misrule.  They certainly used to speak to pretty much any tenant (private, council, housing association, crown, co-op...)

Best wishes & good luck.

theartfullodger

sevenhills said:

Not paying rent gives them the upper hand if their motive is sinister.
Local councils help tenants when landlords are failing to maintain there buildings. Pay your rent.

It's almost impossible to evict a rent act tenancy.. but yes, rent arrears is a window.... tricky mind...

V V different from ASTs (or ATs..)

sourpuss2021

So does this mean your tenancy began before 1977?

And you were really never in the position of being able to buy your flat from the landlord, rather than paying rent all these years?

After all the property presumably wasn’t worth more than tuppence ha’hapenny back then…

Woofiedog

theartfullodger said:

Woofiedog said:

theartfullodger said:

You do not have to own a place to be landlord.  Just the right/authority to rent it out in your name ("your" being human or corporate).

But aiui no rent is due unless you been served with name & address of "the landlord".

More importantly have been served notice (s) compliant with s48 & s3?  If not no rent due (as before) -s48 - or possible fines and criminal record (s3).

Suggest you 'phone the experts in landlord/tenant matters, including rent act tenancies, Shelter, 0808 800 4444.

Best wishes.

Thanks for your answer. I have tried Shelter but they don't answer the phone to anyone not about to be made homeless. All I have are private legal firms charging £250 ph. I can't afford these.

I humbly suggest you also ask, calm & polite, I suggest in writing/email, each of the possibles what authority do they claim they have that gives them the right to be YOUR landlord: See what comes back

(eg it is quite common for some owners to have an agreement (a tenancy agreement ) with a lettings agent granting agent right to sublet whole property to someone else).  Often as part of a "guaranteed rent" scheme/scam.   In these cases there are two landlords & two tenants:

1. Owner (as landlord) has tenant letting agent (with right to rent out. )
2.  Letting agent (as landlord) has tenant (human occupant).

Both landlords may be humans or corporate bodies (eg a company).

Have you been served with notice(s) compliant with s48 & s3 please?? See this link (the change of landlord bit..) which outlines what you should already have had.


There are quite a few owners & landlords who don;t know what they are doing: When I started as a landlord in 2000 I made stupid, expensive, complicated & long-drawn out mistakes.  Oh my stupidity !  Oh the hubris! (I've never had rent act tenancies btw..)

You probably know all there is to know about rent act tenancies but this may be worth a read for you or someone else in a similar position. See...
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/renting/regulated_tenancies.

Shelter are an overworked charity with limited resources.  Workload possibly related to 13 years of Tory misrule.  They certainly used to speak to pretty much any tenant (private, council, housing association, crown, co-op...)

Best wishes & good luck.

Yes, this is what I suspect has happened. The 'investor' has sub-let the property to the 'agent' who are really the acting landlord or actual landlord, only they won't admit it. Neither party will show me the upper contract setting out the arrangements they have with each other.

I simply will not tolerate this situation. No, I have not been served with a formal notice, although the 'agent' did write and tell me that I should send maintenance issue requests to them. I have asked the investor to send me a s.3 and he then admitted he was the landlord and then said that the 'agent' took full responsibility for my flat - and that included all negotiations and policy making and procedures, which, in my mind, makes them the true landlord.

I won't pay them a penny until they have sorted this out legally and then they will only get the rent from that date on.

theartfullodger

Thanks. ....  Suspect he doesn't know the difference between owner and landlord. 

To be a lettings agent (or landlord) in England requires no qualifications, no training, no criminal records check.  'sfunny the Tories don't seem to care.

macman

Woofiedog said:

theartfullodger said:

Woofiedog said:

theartfullodger said:

You do not have to own a place to be landlord.  Just the right/authority to rent it out in your name ("your" being human or corporate).

But aiui no rent is due unless you been served with name & address of "the landlord".

More importantly have been served notice (s) compliant with s48 & s3?  If not no rent due (as before) -s48 - or possible fines and criminal record (s3).

Suggest you 'phone the experts in landlord/tenant matters, including rent act tenancies, Shelter, 0808 800 4444.

Best wishes.

Thanks for your answer. I have tried Shelter but they don't answer the phone to anyone not about to be made homeless. All I have are private legal firms charging £250 ph. I can't afford these.

I humbly suggest you also ask, calm & polite, I suggest in writing/email, each of the possibles what authority do they claim they have that gives them the right to be YOUR landlord: See what comes back

(eg it is quite common for some owners to have an agreement (a tenancy agreement ) with a lettings agent granting agent right to sublet whole property to someone else).  Often as part of a "guaranteed rent" scheme/scam.   In these cases there are two landlords & two tenants:

1. Owner (as landlord) has tenant letting agent (with right to rent out. )
2.  Letting agent (as landlord) has tenant (human occupant).

Both landlords may be humans or corporate bodies (eg a company).

Have you been served with notice(s) compliant with s48 & s3 please?? See this link (the change of landlord bit..) which outlines what you should already have had.


There are quite a few owners & landlords who don;t know what they are doing: When I started as a landlord in 2000 I made stupid, expensive, complicated & long-drawn out mistakes.  Oh my stupidity !  Oh the hubris! (I've never had rent act tenancies btw..)

You probably know all there is to know about rent act tenancies but this may be worth a read for you or someone else in a similar position. See...
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/renting/regulated_tenancies.

Shelter are an overworked charity with limited resources.  Workload possibly related to 13 years of Tory misrule.  They certainly used to speak to pretty much any tenant (private, council, housing association, crown, co-op...)

Best wishes & good luck.

Yes, this is what I suspect has happened. The 'investor' has sub-let the property to the 'agent' who are really the acting landlord or actual landlord, only they won't admit it. Neither party will show me the upper contract setting out the arrangements they have with each other.

I simply will not tolerate this situation. No, I have not been served with a formal notice, although the 'agent' did write and tell me that I should send maintenance issue requests to them. I have asked the investor to send me a s.3 and he then admitted he was the landlord and then said that the 'agent' took full responsibility for my flat - and that included all negotiations and policy making and procedures, which, in my mind, makes them the true landlord.

I won't pay them a penny until they have sorted this out legally and then they will only get the rent from that date on.

If you are really confident on that point, then you are more than able to afford a lawyer to look at this, even at £250ph, as you have already enjoyed 6m rent free?

gwynlas

To be a landlord in some parts of the UK you have to be registered with the local authority and they can be quite stringent in enforcement of this.

OP whilst ownership might have changed it is still your responsibility to pay rent to any authorised agent and notify then in writing keeping copies of any Health and Safety concerns. You can inform local council enviromental health if these reports are not acted upon. it is up to the managing agent/freeholder of your block to organise any external repairs or redecoration and to chase others for payment you need not concern yourself.

theartfullodger

Accept the comments about some parts of UK, my bad, should have read as it now does " in England". (I am also a landlord in Scotland).

Nope, the responsibility is to pay to landlord (unless you can quote a law saying otherwise).

OP's point is he's seen no evidence as to who is owner or landlord.

Woofie probably worth spending £3 with gov UK land registry & find out who is registered as owner ..

Useful valuable information, but won't tell you who is your landlord.