Which Ombudsman?

Undervalued

powerful_Rogue said:

What are you actually seeking? What outcome are you looking to achieve?

Indeed.

If the OP feels he has been badly served by his union then by all means make a complaint in the hope that it will improve things for members in the future.

If on the other hand the OP is expecting compensation then, for the reasons I explained in my early post, I think he will be disappointed.

JamesMckk

Undervalued said:

JamesMckk said:

I'm not sure which ombudsman service to approach and may need to send this to two services so I'm seeking some guidance first. 

I was a member of a trade union and paid a monthly subscription.  I required their help during a grievance with an employer and found the service to be appalling. 
I had to take this through 5 union reps during the grievance procedure. Each time I had to contact the union myself in order to get a new rep as my case was not passed on. One rep was sorted out the day before the grievance meeting.
Another rep cancelled their attendance to the appeal meeting over email to my HR department without informing me first. I was not provided with the help that was required, that I had been paying for. It was highly embarrassing and delayed the whole grievance procedure.
Would I take this to a consumer ombudsman? Do they deal with unions?

The union owns a legal subsidiary that I was free to use as part of being a paying union member. The assessor was a named employment law locum but their emails were sent under a different named email account so I was never sure who I was dealing with.
The assessment of my case was said to have no chance of success in a tribunal but their reasoning did not follow the evidence I had provided.  It was said to be out of time but the tribunal had already accepted my claims and was booked for a 6-day hearing by the judge
After this, I applied for legal aid but the legal aid agency would not even look into my case as they said the union would have sufficiently assessed it.
I'm not a solicitor but their assessment was very sloppy and quite ambiguous in parts.  I was forced to take my claims to a tribunal myself but reached a settlement before the court date and was awarded a substantial amount of money of around a year's salary which clearly shows merit to my claims.
I'm guessing to take this to the legal ombudsman but wanted to check as this is one big complaint that splits into a consumer (?) and then a legal matter. Or would it all come under as consumer as I had been paying the monthly subscription for the union and their legal subsidiary?

I've submitted,  followed and exhausted the complaints procedures with both but need to know which ombudsman service to use and if this should/ can be split into two ombudsman services, the consumer (?) and legal ombudsman. 

Sorry but it doesn't show the merit of your claim. Nor were you "awarded" anything, the parties agreed a settlement.

More cases are settled than reach tribunal or the civil courts. Settlements are reached for all kinds of reasons, particularly in employment claims, where it is most unusual for any costs to be awarded. So, it can often be far cheaper for an employer to settle a case even if they have a good chance of winning.

You may have had a very good case but given that it wasn't tested before a judge we will never know.

However, given that you were "awarded" a substantial amount of money, what losses are you seeking to recover? The union may have provided a poor service, which is of course annoying, but it is difficult to see you getting anything else beyond perhaps a nominal amount for "distress and inconvenience".

I see your point and I guess that the wording of "merit" and "awarded" were not the right choice.

From the union, I had asked for a complete refund for the monthly subscription. 
I had mentioned that I was also looking for some sort of compensation but I wasn't expecting anything from this.

I should have looked at the reviews on Trustpilot more closely before joining this union. It's around 50/50 of 5* and 1* ratings.  I did a little digging and found that the 5* reviews had been written by the union's staff and the management.

If the legal team's assessments were sufficient, they would have taken this on.
By seeking any free legal advice I could get, I was able to strengthen my claims.
During that time of their assessment, I attended a Case Management hearing with the respondent's legal team and a Judge who accepted my claims and booked this for a 6-day hearing at the tribunal.
If there was anything in my claims that were deemed to be so unsuccessful (as the legal team thought) the judge would not have put these through to be heard.

The legal team's assessment restricted me from even applying for legal aid which I would have been entitled to do.
I feel that if I had been given that professional legal representation, I may have been able to achieve more of a settlement amount or be awarded a higher amount from the tribunal. How much more,  I don't know...

Sorry to go on a rant, but having to fight this myself without any knowledge of employment law caused an obscene amount of distress and inconvenience and took over my life. During all this time I managed to find a contract role with a company but they ended this contract as they could see I wasn't coping well.  If this will only get the normal amount of compensation, then so be it.

Believe it or not,  I'm not doing this for compensation.  I am doing this for closure. I worked for my employers for 16 years so it's hard to just forget and move on but I am trying my best.
If I get nothing but an official apology, I would gladly take that and walk.

JamesMckk

DullGreyGuy said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

There is no such thing as "the consumer ombudsman" so far as I know.  

There used to be the "retail ombudsman" which is as close a name as I can think of however they were ordered to stop calling themselves an ombudsman.

There are two types of ombudsman... one created under statute which typically have reasonable powers and automatically cover all relevant companies. There are then others which are just setup as an ADR company, their membership is optional and their powers come from contracts between them and their voluntary members. 

For most things there is neither type of ombudsman, its really only heavily regulated activities like financial services, energy, water etc where there is a statutory ombudsman. The voluntary ones have a clear conflict of interests... rule against your member too often and they'll just cancel their membership but this is why there are standards they must reach and why the Retail Ombudsman were ordered to rename. 

There is no ombudsman for trade unions, the correct complaint process is per gov. uk/ complain -trade- union 

Thank you for this.   The certification officer is responsible for the actions of the unions.
Unfortunately, they do not deal with an individual's case and would only be for such things as corruption within the union's election process.   
There doesn't seem to be an ombudsman for trade union members when that union fails to provide the service that is paid for.

JamesMckk

powerful_Rogue said:

What are you actually seeking? What outcome are you looking to achieve?

I know it sounds silly but I want closure.  I want to move on with my life and not have "What-If" thoughts all the time. 

If the ombudsman turns around and says that I don't have a case, I would gladly take that impartial final answer.

powerful_Rogue

JamesMckk said:

powerful_Rogue said:

What are you actually seeking? What outcome are you looking to achieve?

I know it sounds silly but I want closure.  I want to move on with my life and not have "What-If" thoughts all the time. 

If the ombudsman turns around and says that I don't have a case, I would gladly take that impartial final answer.

I would just forget it and move on. Why bother wasting any more time and energy on this. It seems there is no ombudsman for you to turn to. Are you really going to take them to court for return of your subscription fees, as that is a non-starter straight away and I would imagine be heavily defended.
You mention an official apology would be acceptable, but why? It means nothing at all.

born_again

JamesMckk said:

Undervalued said:

JamesMckk said:

I'm not sure which ombudsman service to approach and may need to send this to two services so I'm seeking some guidance first. 

I was a member of a trade union and paid a monthly subscription.  I required their help during a grievance with an employer and found the service to be appalling. 
I had to take this through 5 union reps during the grievance procedure. Each time I had to contact the union myself in order to get a new rep as my case was not passed on. One rep was sorted out the day before the grievance meeting.
Another rep cancelled their attendance to the appeal meeting over email to my HR department without informing me first. I was not provided with the help that was required, that I had been paying for. It was highly embarrassing and delayed the whole grievance procedure.
Would I take this to a consumer ombudsman? Do they deal with unions?

The union owns a legal subsidiary that I was free to use as part of being a paying union member. The assessor was a named employment law locum but their emails were sent under a different named email account so I was never sure who I was dealing with.
The assessment of my case was said to have no chance of success in a tribunal but their reasoning did not follow the evidence I had provided.  It was said to be out of time but the tribunal had already accepted my claims and was booked for a 6-day hearing by the judge
After this, I applied for legal aid but the legal aid agency would not even look into my case as they said the union would have sufficiently assessed it.
I'm not a solicitor but their assessment was very sloppy and quite ambiguous in parts.  I was forced to take my claims to a tribunal myself but reached a settlement before the court date and was awarded a substantial amount of money of around a year's salary which clearly shows merit to my claims.
I'm guessing to take this to the legal ombudsman but wanted to check as this is one big complaint that splits into a consumer (?) and then a legal matter. Or would it all come under as consumer as I had been paying the monthly subscription for the union and their legal subsidiary?

I've submitted,  followed and exhausted the complaints procedures with both but need to know which ombudsman service to use and if this should/ can be split into two ombudsman services, the consumer (?) and legal ombudsman. 

Sorry but it doesn't show the merit of your claim. Nor were you "awarded" anything, the parties agreed a settlement.

More cases are settled than reach tribunal or the civil courts. Settlements are reached for all kinds of reasons, particularly in employment claims, where it is most unusual for any costs to be awarded. So, it can often be far cheaper for an employer to settle a case even if they have a good chance of winning.

You may have had a very good case but given that it wasn't tested before a judge we will never know.

However, given that you were "awarded" a substantial amount of money, what losses are you seeking to recover? The union may have provided a poor service, which is of course annoying, but it is difficult to see you getting anything else beyond perhaps a nominal amount for "distress and inconvenience".

I see your point and I guess that the wording of "merit" and "awarded" were not the right choice.

From the union, I had asked for a complete refund for the monthly subscription. 
I had mentioned that I was also looking for some sort of compensation but I wasn't expecting anything from this.

I should have looked at the reviews on Trustpilot more closely before joining this union. It's around 50/50 of 5* and 1* ratings.  I did a little digging and found that the 5* reviews had been written by the union's staff and the management.

If the legal team's assessments were sufficient, they would have taken this on.
By seeking any free legal advice I could get, I was able to strengthen my claims.
During that time of their assessment, I attended a Case Management hearing with the respondent's legal team and a Judge who accepted my claims and booked this for a 6-day hearing at the tribunal.
If there was anything in my claims that were deemed to be so unsuccessful (as the legal team thought) the judge would not have put these through to be heard.

The legal team's assessment restricted me from even applying for legal aid which I would have been entitled to do.
I feel that if I had been given that professional legal representation, I may have been able to achieve more of a settlement amount or be awarded a higher amount from the tribunal. How much more,  I don't know...

Sorry to go on a rant, but having to fight this myself without any knowledge of employment law caused an obscene amount of distress and inconvenience and took over my life. During all this time I managed to find a contract role with a company but they ended this contract as they could see I wasn't coping well.  If this will only get the normal amount of compensation, then so be it.

Believe it or not,  I'm not doing this for compensation.  I am doing this for closure. I worked for my employers for 16 years so it's hard to just forget and move on but I am trying my best.
If I get nothing but an official apology, I would gladly take that and walk.

TBH, given that the union offer more than that one service, I can not see them agreeing.

Frustrating as it is. You have complained, they have rejected it. As hard as it is move on. 

Maybe email top person with your concerns. They may or may not do anything. 

From my experience of the union where I'am, they are a waste of time. Have no interest in anything other than taking subs from people. Hence why I did not join them.

eskbanker

JamesMckk said:
Sorry to go on a rant, but having to fight this myself without any knowledge of employment law caused an obscene amount of distress and inconvenience and took over my life. During all this time I managed to find a contract role with a company but they ended this contract as they could see I wasn't coping well.  If this will only get the normal amount of compensation, then so be it.

Believe it or not,  I'm not doing this for compensation.  I am doing this for closure. I worked for my employers for 16 years so it's hard to just forget and move on but I am trying my best.
If I get nothing but an official apology, I would gladly take that and walk.

I can understand why something like this must be all-consuming, but if it got to the point where you effectively lost a job because of the effects of dealing with it, it's probably time to let it lie, especially if the juice is unlikely to be worth the squeezing?

JamesMckk

powerful_Rogue said:

JamesMckk said:

powerful_Rogue said:

What are you actually seeking? What outcome are you looking to achieve?

I know it sounds silly but I want closure.  I want to move on with my life and not have "What-If" thoughts all the time. 

If the ombudsman turns around and says that I don't have a case, I would gladly take that impartial final answer.

I would just forget it and move on. Why bother wasting any more time and energy on this. It seems there is no ombudsman for you to turn to. Are you really going to take them to court for return of your subscription fees, as that is a non-starter straight away and I would imagine be heavily defended.
You mention an official apology would be acceptable, but why? It means nothing at all.

That's easier said than done. To just walk away from something after 16 years is not exactly a stroll in the park, especially after being treated so badly. 

I had no intention of taking this to court hence my query about the ombudsmen.  From what I understand from this thread, there is nothing further I can do with the union.  However, I would be able to raise a complaint with the legal ombudsman about the assessments completed by the legal organisation.

powerful_Rogue

JamesMckk said:

powerful_Rogue said:

JamesMckk said:

powerful_Rogue said:

What are you actually seeking? What outcome are you looking to achieve?

I know it sounds silly but I want closure.  I want to move on with my life and not have "What-If" thoughts all the time. 

If the ombudsman turns around and says that I don't have a case, I would gladly take that impartial final answer.

I would just forget it and move on. Why bother wasting any more time and energy on this. It seems there is no ombudsman for you to turn to. Are you really going to take them to court for return of your subscription fees, as that is a non-starter straight away and I would imagine be heavily defended.
You mention an official apology would be acceptable, but why? It means nothing at all.

That's easier said than done. To just walk away from something after 16 years is not exactly a stroll in the park, especially after being treated so badly. 

I had no intention of taking this to court hence my query about the ombudsmen.  From what I understand from this thread, there is nothing further I can do with the union.  However, I would be able to raise a complaint with the legal ombudsman about the assessments completed by the legal organisation.

So instead you're going to waste even more time and energy on this crusade in the hope you might get a half @ssed apology. You really need to draw a line under this and focus this wasted energy on yourself.

JamesMckk

powerful_Rogue said:

JamesMckk said:

powerful_Rogue said:

JamesMckk said:

powerful_Rogue said:

What are you actually seeking? What outcome are you looking to achieve?

I know it sounds silly but I want closure.  I want to move on with my life and not have "What-If" thoughts all the time. 

If the ombudsman turns around and says that I don't have a case, I would gladly take that impartial final answer.

I would just forget it and move on. Why bother wasting any more time and energy on this. It seems there is no ombudsman for you to turn to. Are you really going to take them to court for return of your subscription fees, as that is a non-starter straight away and I would imagine be heavily defended.
You mention an official apology would be acceptable, but why? It means nothing at all.

That's easier said than done. To just walk away from something after 16 years is not exactly a stroll in the park, especially after being treated so badly. 

I had no intention of taking this to court hence my query about the ombudsmen.  From what I understand from this thread, there is nothing further I can do with the union.  However, I would be able to raise a complaint with the legal ombudsman about the assessments completed by the legal organisation.

So instead you're going to waste even more time and energy on this crusade in the hope you might get a half @ssed apology. You really need to draw a line under this and focus this wasted energy on yourself.

Thanks, powerogue but you seem to be twisting my words to suit a response you so wish to give.

You first asked if I was really going to take them to court for the return of my subscription fees.
I don't recall saying that my intention was to take this to court.

Now you are saying I am wasting my time and energy on a crusade to get a half @ssed apology. 
I believe what I said was "If I get nothing but an official apology, I would gladly take that and walk".

I understand you are trying to give your best possible advice and I appreciate that but how can you give this advice and tell me to walk away without knowing anything about my case?  I hadn't explained the details of the assessment and why I believe their decisions were negligent as what's the point in that? That's a whole different kettle of fish. I have just given an overview of parts surrounding the complaint. Not the complaint about the assessment itself.

I started this 'Which Ombudsman' thread to seek advice for exactly that, not for your judgment on how I should spend my time and energy.

Thanks for your help