Wine Subscriptions and Distance Selling

DullGreyGuy

HillStreetBlues said:

bris said:

Distance selling not an option here its a subscription service, the distance selling started on the first day and finished 14 days later. You don't get a new distance sale every month.

Has the issue been tested?

Its inscribed into the CCR... quoted above

Ditzy_Mitzy

DullGreyGuy said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

This would fall under distance selling, so you have a right to return to a refund as long as the goods - wine in this case - are returned within 14 days.  The distance selling regulations have primacy over Wine 52's terms and conditions, which don't appear to be strictly lawful as they mention wine being 'non-refundable'.  You are, however, on the hook as regards paying for carriage.  

But this is a subscription service so 30(6) applies 

(6) If the contract is a sales contract for regular delivery of goods during a defined period of more than one day, the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the first of the goods come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

(b)a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.

The OP had the first box of wine to judge its quality etc and the right to cancel ended 14 days after that. 

It's an interesting one, because there's a counter argument that this is not a genuine contract for the 'regular delivery of goods'.  Having two or three boxes of wine delivered at irregular intervals over the course of a year or so isn't, perhaps, regular enough.  This is mere speculation, of course, but it may be something that could be tested - as @HillStreetBlues
has alluded to.  

comeandgo

Why would they change the terminology from box in first part which they say is returnable to case which is not returnable.  Are they two different products?

Undervalued

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

This would fall under distance selling, so you have a right to return to a refund as long as the goods - wine in this case - are returned within 14 days.  The distance selling regulations have primacy over Wine 52's terms and conditions, which don't appear to be strictly lawful as they mention wine being 'non-refundable'.  You are, however, on the hook as regards paying for carriage.  

But this is a subscription service so 30(6) applies 

(6) If the contract is a sales contract for regular delivery of goods during a defined period of more than one day, the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the first of the goods come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

(b)a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.

The OP had the first box of wine to judge its quality etc and the right to cancel ended 14 days after that. 

It's an interesting one, because there's a counter argument that this is not a genuine contract for the 'regular delivery of goods'.  Having two or three boxes of wine delivered at irregular intervals over the course of a year or so isn't, perhaps, regular enough.  This is mere speculation, of course, but it may be something that could be tested - as @HillStreetBlues
has alluded to.  

Or, arguably, it is a contract for the regular delivery of goods but they are allowing the extra benefit of being able to opt out of a particular delivery, providing you do so on the agreed terms.

DullGreyGuy

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

This would fall under distance selling, so you have a right to return to a refund as long as the goods - wine in this case - are returned within 14 days.  The distance selling regulations have primacy over Wine 52's terms and conditions, which don't appear to be strictly lawful as they mention wine being 'non-refundable'.  You are, however, on the hook as regards paying for carriage.  

But this is a subscription service so 30(6) applies 

(6) If the contract is a sales contract for regular delivery of goods during a defined period of more than one day, the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the first of the goods come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

(b)a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.

The OP had the first box of wine to judge its quality etc and the right to cancel ended 14 days after that. 

It's an interesting one, because there's a counter argument that this is not a genuine contract for the 'regular delivery of goods'.  Having two or three boxes of wine delivered at irregular intervals over the course of a year or so isn't, perhaps, regular enough.  This is mere speculation, of course, but it may be something that could be tested - as @HillStreetBlues
has alluded to.  

Ultimately one for the courts to opine on but on the basis the default action is that you get a box a month it feels hard to argue its not a contract. There is just the added benefit of being able to skip certain boxes if you follow the actions laid out in the T&Cs but if you dont then you get the box. 

HillStreetBlues

Good point about a is it a regular delivery Ditzy_Mitzy

https://www.beer52.com/wine/faq
Also

A person pays £41  and does not have to do so, they can chose not to pay and not receive anything.

If a person pays £41 they get
4 bottles of wine £28.01
A copy of Glug  magazine £7.99
2 wine snacks £5

It any other circumstance it's a simple purchase of goods totally £41

born_again

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

This would fall under distance selling, so you have a right to return to a refund as long as the goods - wine in this case - are returned within 14 days.  The distance selling regulations have primacy over Wine 52's terms and conditions, which don't appear to be strictly lawful as they mention wine being 'non-refundable'.  You are, however, on the hook as regards paying for carriage.  

But this is a subscription service so 30(6) applies 

(6) If the contract is a sales contract for regular delivery of goods during a defined period of more than one day, the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the first of the goods come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

(b)a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.

The OP had the first box of wine to judge its quality etc and the right to cancel ended 14 days after that. 

It's an interesting one, because there's a counter argument that this is not a genuine contract for the 'regular delivery of goods'.  Having two or three boxes of wine delivered at irregular intervals over the course of a year or so isn't, perhaps, regular enough.  This is mere speculation, of course, but it may be something that could be tested - as @HillStreetBlues
has alluded to.  

As OP said >I joined Wine52 and sometimes get their monthly subscription, often pausing it for a month or 3 at a time.< So in effect if you do not pause it is a regular contract. 
Just in this case the OP has paused, as allowed to. But on un pausing it is not a new contract, so no new 14 days cooling off period. They have just restarted the old rolling contract.

End of the day with a rolling subscription, these companies do not have to inform you they are taking funds. 

Could be one to test in court. Giving it's only £41 case. Is the risk of losing worth that, as may be a lot more.

Ectophile

ought said:

Their site says:

How Do I Return My Box?

If you would like to return a box, please contact support@wine52.com and someone from our friendly team will assist you. All returned items in your box must be unopened and the return logged with our customer service team. Unfortunately, we cannot offer free returns on the boxes of wine due to their heavy weight.

Due to the nature of our product, all cases are non-refundable unless defective in which we will send a replacement or a refund.

The first section is clearly contradicted by the second.

That depends on whether or not a "case" of wine means something specific here.  It often means 12 bottles, though some retailers seem to sell "cases" of 6 bottles.

A box could hold as little as 1 bottle.

ought

A few points for this discussion.

• It is different wine each time.
• I did not restart the subscription, it automatically restarts after you miss the month, and you have to remember to pause it again.
• This is actually for a different amount of bottles at a different price, so is it the same subscription?

Also, usually you can refuse a parcel when it is delivered, and ask them to return it to sender. Could I do that if I am actually home?

Though the courier is Hermes or Evri (bit as bad as Hermes) so do they even allow you to refuse, if you get to them before they dump it and leg it?

HillStreetBlues

ought said:

Though the courier is Hermes or Evri (bit as bad as Hermes) so do they even allow you to refuse, if you get to them before they dump it and leg it?

Evri is the new name for Hermes.