Is going to No landline, just a broadband connection only, a false economy for the future ? Discuss

Oldbirdtoo

I have been toying with the idea of binning my landline and going to fast fibre and am looking for advice.  We rarely use the landline as the household uses mobiles.  I believe there are ways of keeping your landline number and directing it to a mobile, (an app called SIP) anybody had experience of using such technology?

My main concern is that once my 1st contract is up with the new fibre provider that it might be more expensive to change provider if I can’t find a competitive fibre only provider in my area to swap to.  My assumption is that the number of providers/deals  is more limited if your not taking the landline option or that the best deals require your to have a combined landline & broadband contract.  Am I correct in thinking that if you don't have an existing landline you will need to pay the landline re-connection fee if you were to move back to a landline & broadband contract and therefore what appears to be a better deal may not be.   Can anybody tell me if this is likely to happen or am I confused by the fact that some fast fibre deals still run over copper wires into the house and therefore the physical line still remains and there won't be a re connection charge, and that it's all dependent on what physical fibre connection you choose.   Basically I just want to be aware of any pitfalls that I might encounter if I bin the landline.    Thanks in advance.

onomatopoeia99

It's not going to be that many years before the copper pairs are disconnected in areas with FTTP and fixed line voice services are only provided over SIP, so if you ask for a landline you won't be able to get one as fibre optic is the only thing they'll install.  There are already areas where this is the case, new supply is fibre only.  "Deals" will reflect this.

Now Virigin Media are an odd case where they often charge more to have broadband only than broadband + line rental, but they are a shower so we won't talk about them.

HaroldWhistler

Oldbirdtoo said:

I have been toying with the idea of binning my landline and going to fast fibre and am looking for advice.  We rarely use the landline as the household uses mobiles.  I believe there are ways of keeping your landline number and directing it to a mobile, (an app called SIP) anybody had experience of using such technology?

My main concern is that once my 1st contract is up with the new fibre provider that it might be more expensive to change provider if I can’t find a competitive fibre only provider in my area to swap to.  My assumption is that the number of providers/deals  is more limited if your not taking the landline option or that the best deals require your to have a combined landline & broadband contract.  Am I correct in thinking that if you don't have an existing landline you will need to pay the landline re-connection fee if you were to move back to a landline & broadband contract and therefore what appears to be a better deal may not be.   Can anybody tell me if this is likely to happen or am I confused by the fact that some fast fibre deals still run over copper wires into the house and therefore the physical line still remains and there won't be a re connection charge, and that it's all dependent on what physical fibre connection you choose.   Basically I just want to be aware of any pitfalls that I might encounter if I bin the landline.    Thanks in advance.

If the property/area has "Full Fibre" - meaning Ultrafast Fibre all the way to the home (FTTP) - on the Openreach network, then generally speaking it is my understanding that there are more Providers who offer FTTP products that are "Broadband only" (without a landline) than those who offer "Broadband with Phone" (with a landline). 

Choosing a Landline results in something called "Digital Voice" that ties in with the supplied Router. Providers such as BT, Vodafone, and Sky offer this as an option (for an additional cost). Generally speaking, unless you absolutely need the Landline number, it is generally cheaper to get an Unlimited Minutes Mobile plan (or several) for the members of the household/business. It should also be noted that unlike the old Landline products on the Copper line (which could be used with a non digital phone), the new Digital Voice will not be operational during any power cut unless there is a backup power supply for the equipment coming into the property. 

Note that the broadband companies for years have mis-marketed FTTC (Fibre to a Cabinet) with terms such as "Superfast Fibre" when they are only Fibre to a Cabinet somewhere and Copper to people's homes/businesses. That is still the "old" technology of delivering broadband and phone services (the latter of which is apparently being phased out by Openreach in a few years in any case in all areas where FTTP goes online).

FTTC is not comparable to FTTP. As an example, three properties could be connected to the same Cabinet on FTTC, but all be different distances from it. That distance will not depend on how the crow flies, but instead where the wires go above or underground. All 3 may buy the same "Superfast Broadband product". The speed each house gets at exactly the same time (all other things being equal) will not be the same. The speed each gets will likely fluctuate to varying degrees (from slightly to wildly) depending on interference, the weather, distance from the cabinet etc. Each house may experience a different number of "drop outs" that are entirely to do with factors external to the property and not within their control. The speed each gets will not necessarily be the speed they chose to pay for. The price each house pays however for that same product, will be the same, no matter what quality service each gets. 

FTTP (Ultrafast Full Fibre) on the other hand is a completely different kettle of fish. It is powerful fibre optic cables connected from an Exchange (connected to the overall regional, or national network in the case of Openreach) all the way directly to each property. It is a broadband product that is "always on" with the cables being far more advanced than the old copper network, more resilient and protected from external factors (weather, interference etc) and capable of far far higher data transmission speeds and more connections simultaneously. The distance to each property is now irrelevant (these cables are capable of transmitting data at almost the speed of light). In this case, all other things being equal, then if those same three properties in the above example chose to have the same "Full Fibre" product, they would not only pay the same, but also get the guaranteed speed of the product they paid for on a consistent basis. The connection is not only capable of being much much faster, but is significantly more reliable (and is the future in terms of the way things are heading). You can choose the speed you wish to go for. Think of the broadband bandwidth speed as the water pressure coming into a home.

As far as competition goes, even on the Openreach network, competition has thankfully increased and prices have come down (as has the wholesale cost by Openreach) over time. The price of a 900Mbps connection for instance has significantly reduced over the last 3 years. And various providers are beginning to offer shorter contracts and fixed prices for FTTP products too (i.e. no ridiculous increases during your contract term). Given FTTP is the way things are heading, it is likely that this competition will only increase over time. 

Regarding competition - There are areas where Openreach is not the provider providing FTTP. There are "alternative networks" (alt nets) like CityFibre, B4RN, Hyperoptic etc building Full Fibre networks around the country. There is also overlap where several providers might be covering the same properties (including Openreach). Those alternative network providers might have a few operators offering services - e.g. CityFibre, or only have one provider as a monopoly. In the latter case though, those tend to be even cheaper than an Openreach provider and even better given they have a symmetrical upload speed equal to the download speed. 

In terms of moving back to Landline, it really depends on if the underlying network provider supports it and whether the Broadband providers are going to continue to offer it. It looks like they are retiring the Copper phone service in any case as time moves on. At the moment, it seems better value for money to go for a Mobile for phone and go with Broadband only. Of course, everyone's personal circumstances will differ. But it should be noted that the new "Digital voice" system will always require a power supply to work.  

There generally isn't a connection charge on Openreach FTTP as the providers tend to subsidise that when you sign up for a contract. The other networks might charge one, but on the flip side tend to have a cheaper monthly price.


 

Johnmcl7

Companies are not going to be offering better deals with landlines because ultimately they want to get people off copper and onto FTTP products.

I moved from a BT FTTC product to a CityFibre FTTP product so the landline as ditched, I ported the landline number to Sipgate (unfortunately I think they're ditching their free product) and set up a Grandstream 801 device which the landline phone now plugs into.  I could have the number directly on my mobile phone as well but the landline number isn't used that much and the phone it's set up on now has the BT Call Guardian system on it which does a great job filtering calls.

binao

Johnmcl7 said:

Companies are not going to be offering better deals with landlines because ultimately they want to get people off copper and onto FTTP products.

I moved from a BT FTTC product to a CityFibre FTTP product so the landline as ditched, I ported the landline number to Sipgate (unfortunately I think they're ditching their free product) and set up a Grandstream 801 device which the landline phone now plugs into.  I could have the number directly on my mobile phone as well but the landline number isn't used that much and the phone it's set up on now has the BT Call Guardian system on it which does a great job filtering calls.

What is a Grandstream 801 device?

Also BT Call Guardian  system?

Thanks 

matelodave

binao said:

Johnmcl7 said:

Companies are not going to be offering better deals with landlines because ultimately they want to get people off copper and onto FTTP products.

I moved from a BT FTTC product to a CityFibre FTTP product so the landline as ditched, I ported the landline number to Sipgate (unfortunately I think they're ditching their free product) and set up a Grandstream 801 device which the landline phone now plugs into.  I could have the number directly on my mobile phone as well but the landline number isn't used that much and the phone it's set up on now has the BT Call Guardian system on it which does a great job filtering calls.

What is a Grandstream 801 device?

Also BT Call Guardian  system?

Thanks 

this is what you get if you search on line - https://www.grandstream.com/products/gateways-and-atas/analog-telephone-adaptors/product/ht801

you can do the same for BT Call Guardian, Google or any other search engine will find it for you

DullGreyGuy

Oldbirdtoo said:

 We rarely use the landline as the household uses mobiles.  I believe there are ways of keeping your landline number and directing it to a mobile, (an app called SIP) anybody had experience of using such technology?

Many companies offering VOIP are using SIP (its not an app but there may be one thats borrowed the name) though a few companies have decided to do their own thing. For those complying with normal standards there are an array of apps and devices you can use. 

Yes, you can port your landline to a VOIP provider. The VOIP provider doesnt have to be your Broadband provider... we've used Voipfone for over 15 years and so long before ditching the landline whilst having OpenReach BB was an option. Do a lot of international calls and lots of calls whilst overseas and before WhatsApp/Facetime etc it saved us a fortune. Slightly less relevant now for friends and family but still necessary for business things. 

With VOIP you dont by default direct it anywhere... any VOIP app or device logged into your account will ring when an incoming call comes. So if you've installed it on your smart phone and have a physical VOIP phone at home (or a dongle to make a traditional phone VOIP compatible) they will both ring. 

Depending on both your provider and your chosen app some will allow you to do more sophisticated things like not having your mobile ring when its at home or being able to transfer a call from one phone to another. I've added my mobile number as a caller ID for my VOIP and so when overseas I can make calls using VOIP and benefit from its cheaper price but the receiver of my call will think I am calling from my mobile. 

Madmel

We had FTTP installed nearly a year ago as it was finally rolled out in our rural hamlet. As the excellent post from @HaroldWhistler states, it was really difficult to find a provider who would also offer a landline, so after good advice on here, we went with Cuckoo as our broadband provider and Sipgate for incoming calls which would otherwise have gone to our landline. After some faffing, not helped in any way by Shell Broadband being completely useless, we managed to port our number. 

For people like me who are technologically challenged, Cuckoo sent the router and Openreach installed it. I had a choice of times and dates; it took less than an hour to do and it worked immediately. I set up the account with Sipgate and had to buy a box which connected between the router and my cordless phone base station, but that meant I could continue to use my existing handsets. 

Overall, bills are lower as I use my mobile phone for outgoing calls. Sipgate is PAYG (current spend on calls is £0) and FTTP bills are cheaper than old copper wire broadband + line rental was with Shell, with the added bonus of being over 100x faster.

HaroldWhistler

Madmel said:

We had FTTP installed nearly a year ago as it was finally rolled out in our rural hamlet. As the excellent post from @HaroldWhistler states, it was really difficult to find a provider who would also offer a landline, so after good advice on here, we went with Cuckoo as our broadband provider and Sipgate for incoming calls which would otherwise have gone to our landline. After some faffing, not helped in any way by Shell Broadband being completely useless, we managed to port our number. 

For people like me who are technologically challenged, Cuckoo sent the router and Openreach installed it. I had a choice of times and dates; it took less than an hour to do and it worked immediately. I set up the account with Sipgate and had to buy a box which connected between the router and my cordless phone base station, but that meant I could continue to use my existing handsets. 

Overall, bills are lower as I use my mobile phone for outgoing calls. Sipgate is PAYG (current spend on calls is £0) and FTTP bills are cheaper than old copper wire broadband + line rental was with Shell, with the added bonus of being over 100x faster.

That's great to hear. Cuckoo sounds great given the fixed pricing. Like you said, the installation of a Full Fibre connection at a home is generally seamless once the area rollout is complete. FTTP is definitely a game changer and it is great that rural areas finally get a reliable, ultra fast and good value for money internet connection. Hopefully more and more up and down the land get to have FTTP.