Insufficient Heating

FreeBear

propertyrental said: Either the rads are simply not big enough for the property, or the property is leaking heat eg through the roof.

Another possibility - The system has not been balanced properly (or someone has messed with the lockshields). Balancing the radiators is not difficult, but it is time consuming and tedious.

Wrake

saajan_12 said:

Wrake said:

I rent a property and found the downstairs is very cold with heating on. One of the radiators wasn't heating up and a plumber came round and flushed it, causing it to heat up a lot more but still stayed cooler towards the bottom. - the radiator itself, or the room cooler?
The plumber stated there was no issue with the radiator but there are too few radiators with too small pipes in the walls that doesn't allow the rooms to heat up sufficiently - how warm is 'sufficiently'? 
The landlord has given me 2 electric heaters to help but with current costs I am reluctant to have them on for extended periods. - well what's the temperature the rooms can reach with the electric heaters? If you choose not to use all the heating methods available that's up to you. There's no rule saying it must be achieved via central heating only. 
The EPC rating is D, the boiler is fully serviced and Gas Safety is all good. - so rating D is okay, not great.. This is something you get before the tenancy, so can decide on whether you're happy with the resulting energy efficiency. 
Is there anything else I can request from my landlord as it is still too cold? I appreciate the heating system appears to be working as intended but it seems it was just poorly designed and it's still very cold without the electric heaters on and I don't know where I stand.- depends on the answers to the above - what temperatures can you achieve with and without the electric heaters? If the central heating is working as intended, (not a feature you viewed with that has since broken) and there are further heating methods to overall achieve a reasonable temperature, then I expect the LL has covered their duty and its up to you on whether you use them and/or seek help (eg council) if entitled to heating support. 

Comments in line.. 

Sorry the radiator itself. Room just doesn't get warm using the 2 fixed radiators.

I haven't checked the temperature. The other downstairs room (where the thermostat is) struggles to get to 19 and the other room is colder. With the electric heaters I'm unsure of the temperature but I'm fairly confident it would be above 21.

I believe the central heating is working as intended and it is just down to poor design.

The last thing I want is to start making a nuisance of myself but I wanted to make sure there was nothing obvious that the LL had been neglecting in their duties - essentially is it the house's fault, not the LL's?

markin

After flushing did it warm up the bottom at first before getting sludged back up? If not then its the Balancing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NsZ2d2Oups

LHW99

I presume the engineer bled all the radiators as well as flushing?

silvercar

We had one room colder than the rest. We turned off every other radiator in the house and left the offending radiator on for a couple of hours. That seemed to improve things. when we turned the other radiators back on, the heat distributed more evenly.

ThisIsWeird

Wrake said:

Sorry the radiator itself. Room just doesn't get warm using the 2 fixed radiators.

I haven't checked the temperature. The other downstairs room (where the thermostat is) struggles to get to 19 and the other room is colder. With the electric heaters I'm unsure of the temperature but I'm fairly confident it would be above 21.

I believe the central heating is working as intended and it is just down to poor design.

The last thing I want is to start making a nuisance of myself but I wanted to make sure there was nothing obvious that the LL had been neglecting in their duties - essentially is it the house's fault, not the LL's?

I wouldn't start trying to balance radiators - you can get yourself tied up in knots, and it isn't for you to do in any case. But, provided you mark exactly the starting positions of each lockshield before attempting this, there is no harm. This would involve pulling off the lockshield protective cap, and attaching a wee paper flag or similar to the spindle as a pointer. You then close off the valve - turning it clockwise - whilst counting the exact number of turns and part-turns this takes before it stops. Write that figure down on the paper flag, and you can always return to it.

In general, tho', I think there are some other things that can be said. If the rad in question becomes 'hot', as hot as other rads, but its middle-bottom remains cold or cool, then there is almost certainly still some sludge in there. It is perfectly normal for a rad to be cooler as you go towards the bottom, but not 'cold' or very cool. It's usually pretty obvious when it's due to sludge as you can really feel the temp difference - the sludge will prevent the hot water getting to that part, so the only warmth in the outer rad skin at that point will be a bit of conduction from the rest of the rad. It would have been good if the GS had removed the rad and ensured it was completely clean, but hey.

Having said that, if the rad is otherwise 'hot', then clearing this last bit of sludge is unlikely to be transformative.

The use of microbore - although more prone to becoming blocked due to sludge (which this system seemingly had) is no excuse. Microbore should be able to handle the required heat flow.

The room stat needs always to be set higher than its room's temp or else the boiler will go off. What is this other - roomstat - downstairs room used for? If it isn't being used, then turn the rad in there right down as you'll simply be wasting heat.

What about the upstairs rooms - are they bedrooms? If so, I presume they are all turned off/down when not in use? What difference does this make to the downstairs room you are struggling to heat? Any change? If 'yes - it's much hotter', then the bedrooms are clearly pinching too much heat, and that would suggest the rads need balancing, but the simplest solution is obviously to turn off the bedrooms when not in use (and by 'use', I mean a half-hour before bed, and a half-hour before getting up!)

If 'no - the downstairs rads are hot anyway, so turning off the bedrooms makes little extra difference', then it would seem as tho' the downstairs rads are actually working pretty much as intended, but the house is just a harder one to heat. (Provided the two rads are getting nicely hot - if they are not, then perhaps you could try a half-turn opening of their lockshields).

Are there TRVs on all these rads? If so, what are they set at?

Ok, I'm going to guess that the system is actually working 'ok' - or pretty much as well as it ever did - but the issue is that it's an older property with a more poorly-insulated solid 'fabric', and it just needs more prolonged heat to warm up its shell and keep it there. Ie, unlike a modern, well-insulated, house, you cannot just walk in, turn on the heating, and expect to be warm a half-hour later. Like my 1930s house, it takes a good couple of hours to raise its temp, but it stays there quite nicely once reached.

So:

1) Turn off/down any rad in a room that's not being used.

2) Turn the rads and heating on a bit earlier in the rooms you want to 'live' in.

3) Tweak the lockshields of the two rads in that main room open (anticlockwise) a half-turn if you think the rads are being starved of heat - are not 'piping' as other rads. You can always close them off the same amount if it makes no difference. Remember, 'flag' them.

4) Use the electric heater if it's an oil-filled type with a thermostat - oil-filled types have a more steady output. Use it as a booster in order to assist the room to get up to temp, but let the boiler rads do the bulk of the work. Ie, if the room is at, say, 18oC and you want it at 20oC, then have the boiler running for a good while - an hour or more - before you want the room at the 20oC, and turn on the oil-filled rad, say, an hour before too. Adjust the thermostat on the oil-filled until it 'clicks' - that's the current room temp - and then up a further part-turn to roughly correspond to the required temp of ~20oC or so. The oil-filled will now help the room get up to the required temp, and should then turn off. You'll soon work out what the therm' setting on it is for that required room temp - mark it, or note it down. Once the room is at its required temp, turn the oil-fired off, and hopefully the boiler rads will maintain that temp. Ie, use the electric rad only for assisting the boiler to get the room comfy, and turn it off when you can. Hopefully it'll only be running for, say, an hour or so tops.
Even if you need to keep the oil-filled running to maintain a good temp, set its thermostat at that level, so it isn't constantly on. Let the gas do the bulk of the heating. Turn off all unwanted rads.

ThisIsWeird

Did the plumber fitted a magnetic filter on the CH pipe near the boiler?

deannagone

I am afraid if you want to be warm but can't afford to get the house as warm as you need (unfortunately a lot of us are in this position now) you will have to change slightly how you live.  I wear my thick dressing gown as standard over clothes now, socks and footwear to keep feet warm and start moving around (housework gets you warm lol) if I feel cold.  Also have a heated blanket for extra warmth (pennies an hour to run).  My house, since September, has rarely hit 18 degrees but I am still warm.  We also have a few thick fleece blankets.

If you can't make the air or walls warmer, you have to concentrate more locally, keeping your body warm lol.

bouicca21

What temperature is ‘very cold’?

Wrake

LHW99 said:

I presume the engineer bled all the radiators as well as flushing?

Yeh radiators were bled before getting the plumber out