DCB Legal & UK Parking Control - 5 year old letter of claim - private business park

Coupon-mad

"Your personal data was provided to us by yourself, when you submitted an appeal and identified yourself as the driver of the vehicle, in a letter dated 24th June 2018".

So they are correct that they didn't need to get your data from another source nor send you a NTK.

DML1957

Not_A_Hope said:

The 22 Feb 2018 incident took place on a private business park. 

If UKPC were not banned from accessing DVLA data until 22nd March 2018 they had a month to request keeper details.

You can always submit a SAR to the DVLA and ask when they received a request for your data and from whom.

Thank ot A Hope - wasn't the POFA guidance for ticketing, that the NtK could only be issued 28 days after there had been no response from the PCN?  Its just if the incident was 13:45 on 22 Feb 2018, then 28 days later would make it the 22 March 2018 - the day that UKPC were suspended and hence the weren't allowed access to DVLA data until sometime after 25 May 2018?  It could be I've misunderstood the suspensions dates the guidnace - but appreciate your thoughts and avice on this one.

As an aside, when I mention Ranger Services Ltd in my January emails - the DPO @ UKPC responded in a more aggressive manner than previously inmy email exchange with them ?  Not sure whether this suggests anything - its just I heard that Ranger Services were connected to UKPC somehow?

DML1957

Coupon-mad said:

"Your personal data was provided to us by yourself, when you submitted an appeal and identified yourself as the driver of the vehicle, in a letter dated 24th June 2018".

So they are correct that they didn't need to get your data from another source nor send you a NTK.

Hi Coupon-mad, that could very well be the case - but I couldn't find UKPC's letter from June 2018.  Hence, I don't know whether UKPC contacted the car lease company for my details, or whether the car lease company simply forwarded the NtK letter UKPC would have likley sent to them as the keeper / owner.  The car lease company have no records of providing any information (I sent a SAR but nothing at all), similarly, the DVLA wouldn't provide any data as I wasn't the keeper or owner - they needed the lease company to provide authorisation (the lease company simply ignored my request) - really frustratiing.

Below is my letter from 24 June 2018 ....

Dear Sir Madam,

This letter is a formal challenge to the issue of your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper as set out in the current BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice B.22

On 22 February 2018, I was the driver of a XXXXXXX, registration number XXXXXXXX.

Before I decide how to deal with your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper, I should be grateful if you would first answer all the questions and deal with all the issues I have set out below. Once you have done so, I will be able to make an informed decision on how I deal with the matter.

I should be grateful for specific answers to all questions raised. In this respect I remind you of the obligations set out in the current Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

I dispute your claim for the reasons set out below. Please note that although I dispute the whole basis of the parking charge, my main concern is its disproportionate and punitive level.

1. Your parking charge amount claim.

Please explain on which of the following grounds your claim is based:

(i)   Damages for trespass

(ii) Damages for breach of contract

(iii)  A contractual sum

2. Your parking charge Invoice.

Please explain on why you have failed to provide a VAT element or a VAT Registration number with the amounts you are demanding.

3. Your loss.

If it is your case that that a trespass was committed or that a contract was breached such that your claim is one for damages; please give me a full breakdown of the actual losses which evidences that this parking charge is a true reflection of the damages caused solely by the alleged parking contravention.

4. Your status – the creditor.

Your Parking Charge Notice, Notice to Keeper, simply mentions UK Parking Control. Please tell me who is the actual creditor making this £ 100.00 parking charge demand. I need to know exactly who is making the claim and in what capacity.

5. Ownership.

Please tell me who owns the car park as I wish to send them a copy of this letter.

6. Contractual Authority (as required by BPA Ltd AOS CoP B.7)

Please provide me with a copy of the contract between your company and the landowner/landholder that provides the necessary contractual written authority for the issue and enforcement of your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper.

7. Signage.

If it is your case that a contract has been breached or that a contractual sum is now due, please send me photographs of the signs that you display and upon which you seek to evidence that a lawful and legally enforceable contract was been entered into. Please ensure that the photographs show the terms and conditions in a clear and legible manner. Please provide me with a diagram showing the locations and layout of those signs at the car park. Also provide evidence that the wording is in plain and intelligible language and in sufficiently large print as to be legible to a driver at the car park’s entry point.

8. Images of my vehicle.

Please provide copies of all of the images that you have of my vehicle. I understand that the Data Protection Act entitles me to all of this information.

I acknowledge receipt of one (1) black and white images printed on your parking charge demand dated the 31 May 2018.  This picture ‘22/02/2018 13:45:13’, shows an image of what appears to be the above vehicle.  Unfortunately, due to the low quality of the image, there s no means of identifying the car, its manufacturer or model; nor is there any means of identifying its location.

Please provide photographs, dated and timed, clearly showing my vehicle, in the location where you allege the incident occurred.

Please note your website www.paycharge.co.uk does not provide access to any additional images / video footage relating to this Parking Charge.

9. Property owner - XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Please note that I am a Trustee of the XXXXXXXXX, which is the registered owner of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

Additionally, I am the CEO of XXXXXXXX.  XXXXXX have been tenants of XXXXXXXXXXXX since April 2013.

The image provided, whilst difficult to confirm, does appear to be directly adjacent to our offices located on the above Business Park.  

XXXXXXXXXXX are the Business Park’s landlords.  During the months of January and February 2018, the owners of the XXXXXXXXXXXXX (the neighboring business to XXXXXXXXXXX) were having their property refurbished.  This resulted in a large number of commercial vehicles and delivery vans etc. being constantly parked across the car park spaces in front of both Unit 3 & Unit 5, making it impossible on occasion for the tenants of Unit 5 (myself and my staff) to gain access to our parking spaces.

This situation was particularly bad during February 2018; which resulted in myself having to report both the parking and noise problems directly to the landlord, and specifically to a Mr XXXXXXX, Senior Property Manager.  Subsequently, XXXXXX arranged to both speak to the tenants and visit the site to discuss the problems being caused.

It is possible that during this period I may have parked adjacent to our offices due to being unable to access the office car parking spaces in front of XXXXXXXXXXXXX.

I look forward to receiving your acknowledgement within 14 days and as there are no ‘exceptional circumstances’, your comprehensive reply within 35 days (in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22.8). I will then be able to make an informed decision as to how I deal with your Parking Charge Notice – Notice to Keeper.

If you reject this challenge or fail to address the issues that have been raised then, in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer the matter for their decision.

If you fail to follow any of the procedures outlined in the BPA AOS Code of Practice or your legal requirements under the Protection of Freedoms Act, or the requirements of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct then I will make a formal complaint to the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group, D16.

Yours,

 

UKPC responded 29 June -

Dear Sir/ Madam ,

Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the above parking charge.

In order to make a final decision regarding your appeal, please provide the drivers name to our Appeals
Department within fourteen days of the date of this letter. It appears we are missing the final page of your
appeal - we can read down to the end of the page at Point 9.

Further correspondence may be sent by submitting another appeal on our website at
www.ukpcappeals.co.uk, or by post to the address overleaf. Please ensure that if sending evidence by post
that you include the parking charge reference number and vehicle registration.

Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on
the previous information received. At this stage a POPLA verification code will be provided.

The parking charge has been on hold whilst under appeal and may be settled in full at the reduced rate of
£60.00.

Yours faithfully,

I was on holiday until the 14 July - and wrote back to UKPC on 15 July -

Dear Sir Madam,

Thank you for your letter dated the 29 June 2018, where you advise the last page of my letter dated the 24 June 2018 was missing.

Please find attached a further copy of the same as requested.

Yours,

UKPC responded 20 July - with the letter I already posted re:signage photos

Coupon-mad

I don't think it matters.  You admitted to driving in June 2018 so wondering how they got the lease firm's data doesn't really help.

If there was no windscreen PCN (which is either in the SAR or it isn't) then UKPC will have obtained the DVLA data (lease firm) within days of the parking event. Which they can.

DML1957

Coupon-mad said:

I don't think it matters.  You admitted to driving in June 2018 so wondering how they got the lease firm's data doesn't really help.

If there was no windscreen PCN (which is either in the SAR or it isn't) then UKPC will have obtained the DVLA data (lease firm) within days of the parking event. Which they can.

Yes, there was a windscreen PCN - I just ignored it and only reacted once I received the NtK letter in June - unfortunately that's the letter I can't find and UKPC apparently wont or can't provide a copy.

Coupon-mad

Hmmm...so exactly 28 days later they were banned by the DVLA.  It is an interesting one.

DML1957

Coupon-mad said:

Hmmm...so exactly 28 days later they were banned by the DVLA.  It is an interesting one.

If the ban actually started on the 22 March 2018 then UKPC couldn't access the DVLA until after their suspension was lifted on the 25 May 2018.  If this means they couldn't access the DVLA on Friday 25 May 2018 then they'd have to wait until Monday 28 May 2018 and with the DVLA responding next day (provided the request was received before 3:30pm) then UKPC would likely receive the keeper info at the earliest 30 May possibly the 1 or 2 June or even later depending on when the request was actually made.  Its all a bit of a guess as to how, what and when UKPC did whatever they did to acquire the keeper info that resulted in me receiving their letter sometime later in June via the lease company.  I don't believe that this aspect s critical as the signage was impossible to read and my lease with the landord excludes any variations and simply doesn't mention parking permitts, parking charges etc. 

As an aside, I've emailed the landlords to advise that I will be asking them to provide a witness statement as to their involvement or not as maybe the case, in regards to the agreement that UKPC state they have or had in place at the time, and as to whether they believe this agreement does take primacy over my pre-existing lease.  They're still our landlord and we have a reasonably good relationship with them and they dismissed UKPC immediately once they discovered they'd be suspended by the DVLA.

DML1957

Quick update - I had a phone call from the business park's landlord's on Friday - they're super keen to avoid being named and shamed in any court hearing, they've offered to pay whatever fees are due to UKPC to avoid the court case.  I've explained that all I need is their written evidence that the pre-existing lease we have has primacy over any agreement they may subsequently have entered into with UKPC.  The landlord also confirmed that after 4 weeks plus of searching all their records, they have been unable to find any trace or copy of an agreement with UKPC.

They've offered to provide a letter confirming the primacy of the lease, and additionally that they have been unable to confirm the existance of any agreement with UKPC.  However, I'll need to submit the Defence before the 14 March - so hopefully the landlord will respond in time.

I've also had a response to my complaint about UKPC from the local MP.  They've confirmed that they have today written to Ruper Williams (rupert@ukparkingcontrol.com) to complain about UKPC's activities and behaviour and have asked for a response.

And finally, should I still include the paragraph which challenges how UKPC managed to obtain the vehicle detals from DVLA and issue a NtK letter which arrived in June after they were suspended until after 25 May?  UKPC have declined to provide any information on how they obtained the viehicle's details.

KeithP

DML1957 said:

They've offered to provide a letter confirming the primacy of the lease, and additionally that they have been unable to confirm the existance of any agreement with UKPC.  However, I'll need to submit the Defence before the 14 March - so hopefully the landlord will respond in time.

No great rush for that letter. It won't be needed before you file a Defence.
Evidence comes later - at Witness Statement time.

DML1957

KeithP said:

DML1957 said:

They've offered to provide a letter confirming the primacy of the lease, and additionally that they have been unable to confirm the existance of any agreement with UKPC.  However, I'll need to submit the Defence before the 14 March - so hopefully the landlord will respond in time.

No great rush for that letter. It won't be needed before you file a Defence.
Evidence comes later - at Witness Statement time.

Thanks KeithP