Successful Chargeback (But I Have No Idea How)

DancingBadger

Just before Christmas I was asked by an elderly relative to look after his finances (I have an LPA for him) due to physical ill-health limiting his mobility and the fact his bank had closed his local branch. Additionally, he doesn't have an internet connection.

Having jumped through the hoops to get online access to his account, I noticed two large sums had been paid out to two different alarm companies in 2022, and was immediately suspicious as, while he does have an alarm, it was installed years ago and is no longer working. I tried to contact both companies to get an explanation for their charges without success. Knowing I was within the 120 limit on chargeback for the most recent transaction, I contacted the bank and explained the whole situation. They blocked his card and credited his account with both amounts the next day.

Then, at the end of January, I was printing his archived statements for 2020 for other reasons and saw another four-figure payment to an alarm company. Again, there was no way of contacting them, so (tongue-in-cheek this time because I was well out of time for chargeback) I phoned the bank again, giving them the case number they'd allocated on the first occasion, and explaining that I thought these companies were all connected and had made fraudulent use of the card - possibly retaining the card details from the time the alarm was first installed. The woman I spoke with said that given the time lapse she thought it highly unlikely a chargeback would succeed, but she would pass it on for consideration.  Three days later the money was back in the account.  Over £7000 had been taken from  his account since 2020.  The 45-day limit has passed for the first two chargebacks and I'm waiting to see if the latest one will go unchallenged.

The reason I'm posting this is, while I'm pleased to have recovered this money, I'm puzzled as to how I succeeded. I assumed it was because there appears to have been fraud involved, but haven't been able to find any answers on the 'net and would appreciate others' views on this.

[The reason none of these debits had come to light before is my relative, who is just shy of 87, had been caring for his very ill wife since 2018 and opening his bank statements was must one of many tasks that had been allowed to slide.]

Brie

It might be as you said you thought it was fraud.  It might be that the bank agreed it was suspect particularly given the age of the account holder.  It could be that they contacted the company in question who agreed the money shouldn't have been taken. 

I'm curious about why you had no success in contacting the company.  Was it simply that they were hard to get through to?  Or did they deny you access to any info on your relatives account?  If the latter then I would have thought that waving the LPA at them would have opened the door for you.

DancingBadger

Brie said:

It might be as you said you thought it was fraud.  It might be that the bank agreed it was suspect particularly given the age of the account holder.  It could be that they contacted the company in question who agreed the money shouldn't have been taken. 

I'm curious about why you had no success in contacting the company.  Was it simply that they were hard to get through to?  Or did they deny you access to any info on your relatives account?  If the latter then I would have thought that waving the LPA at them would have opened the door for you.

There were three different companies, all apparently operating within three miles of each other.  All I had to go on was the company name on the statements. Going through the (huge!) pile of papers and envelopes my relative handed me.  I could find no paperwork for these companies, so I Googled their names and found phone numbers.  

The first one had a recorded message saying no-one could take the call and immediately went to VM, and on typing that number into Google, it returned an address for a training company over 200 miles away. Predictably, although I left a message, no-one returned my call.

I found an 0800 number for the second one, which had an automated message saying the number was not available.

The third company (the one from 2020) was shown as dissolved when I checked the Companies House database. The entry also showed the company had changed its name four times over four years.

Before I contacted the bank the first time I checked the Companies House site and found one director associated with 16 alarm companies, all with different names, nine of which had been dissolved.

The whole set-up just seemed dodgy to me, but I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination.

Perksy5

Have you had confirmation to say the bank fully upholds the decision and has closed the claim?
From experience we used to send disclaimers that specifically say we can precredit a refund while investigations are on going and if the bank then decides otherwise they can take the funds back at their discretion. (Just as an FYI this is usually for a case thats still open and being investigated hence me asking if its a final decision and completed claim).

DancingBadger

Perksy5 said:

Have you had confirmation to say the bank fully upholds the decision and has closed the claim?
From experience we used to send disclaimers that specifically say we can precredit a refund while investigations are on going and if the bank then decides otherwise they can take the funds back at their discretion. (Just as an FYI this is usually for a case thats still open and being investigated hence me asking if its a final decision and completed claim).

No, nothing at all from the bank. I'm treating this whole thing with caution for the moment and made my relative aware the money could be clawed back if the companies concerned can prove they've provided a service to substantiate the monies they've taken.

I know nothing about alarms, but having done some research, it seems £1500 would buy an all bells and whistles system for a large house with ongoing monitoring at somewhere in the region of £25 per month.  On that basis, over £7k in the space of three years for an alarm that no longer works in a three-bed terrace does seem suspicious, as does the fact none of the three companies has a working phone number.

Brie

I had to do a charge back in Dec - I knew I'd been charged twice for 1 purchase so fairly straightforward.  But I got a warning from the bank to say while they were crediting my account they might reverse it.  The only way to stop that might be to close the account (not do a switch) but then that might be a problem for the relative.

DancingBadger

Brie said:

I had to do a charge back in Dec - I knew I'd been charged twice for 1 purchase so fairly straightforward.  But I got a warning from the bank to say while they were crediting my account they might reverse it.  The only way to stop that might be to close the account (not do a switch) but then that might be a problem for the relative.

I wouldn't want to close the account (a) for the reasons you state - problem for the relative, and (b) because I'm fairly confident this is fraud, but if the companies can substantiate the monies they've taken and they're legitimate, all well and good.

Three different alarm companies helping themselves to four figure sums over a period of less than three years seems suspicious to me, and probably the bank also takes that view, but I'm still really curious as to the procedure they used to claw back the money given the time lapse(s) involved.