Electricity costs with no gas supply

scull68

Good morning,

I am looking for some help if possible. I live in a 2 bedroom flat on my own. I have only electricity, no gas supply therefore my heating and hot water is also electric.

My bills are currently averaging about £280.00 a month. I work Mon - Fri so during the week I am only home in the evenings. 

I have lived at this property for just over 2 years and moved from a house that had gas central heating where my bills for gas and electricity combined were nowhere near as high. I have nothing to compare my current costs too and don't know others who have electricity only.

I do have two separate meters which charge at slightly different rates, I believe this is because there were previously storage heaters and these (when they were still there) as well as the hot water go through one meter with all other electric appliances going to the other. At present I have electric heaters mounted on the walls, my living room one is on for around 3-4 hours in the evenings and another in one of the bedrooms is on a couple of times a week for a couple of hours. All others I keep off.

Can anyone help me with sharing what they pay for a property with electricity only. 

Thank you.

ariarnia

we arent all electric so can't help with that but one of the things i wonder is if your paying 2 lots of standing charge (which isnt a huge amount but will bump up the monthly cost). 

do you take/give meter readings (so your bills arent based on estemates)?

if you do can you maybe share them with us as its a bit easier to get a sense of whats going on if we can work in kWh not £.

ideally 2 readings about 12 months apart from each meter.  

EssexHebridean

OK - the first question here as you say "previously storage heaters" is what sort of heaters are you currently using for heating? By far the cheapest "standard" way of heating an all electric home is via storage heaters - so it's always a huge red flag when they have been removed if not replaced with (what will probably become "standard" inside a few years" a heat pump. 

I'm also in a 2 bed flat - not precisely the same arrangement as you as we do have a gas supply - but it is only used for cooking. Currently I'm using 4000kWh of electricity per year - split 25% day rate 75% night rate over the year. We are with Octopus on E7 - our current peak rate is 48p/kWh and off peak 16p/kWh (rounded for ease). 

pochase

It sounds as if you have the most expensive combination for heating possible.

E7 tariff with high day rates, and panel heaters been used during at day time rates.

A cost comparison will not make sense here, you are paying more than you should.

Somebody with panel heaters but single rate will pay less than you. Somebody with storage heaters  and  E7 will also pay less than you.

What is the usage in KWh? That will give a better idea how you compare.

@EssexHebridean has already done exactly this, given you an idea of energy used, but not compared cost.

scull68

EssexHebridean said:

OK - the first question here as you say "previously storage heaters" is what sort of heaters are you currently using for heating? By far the cheapest "standard" way of heating an all electric home is via storage heaters - so it's always a huge red flag when they have been removed if not replaced with (what will probably become "standard" inside a few years" a heat pump. 

I'm also in a 2 bed flat - not precisely the same arrangement as you as we do have a gas supply - but it is only used for cooking. Currently I'm using 4000kWh of electricity per year - split 25% day rate 75% night rate over the year. We are with Octopus on E7 - our current peak rate is 48p/kWh and off peak 16p/kWh (rounded for ease). 

Hello, thank you for your reply.

I currently have glass panel heaters in the living room and hallway and dillam panel heaters in the bedrooms. Unfortunately the storage heaters had been removed by the previous owners. I have recently put in a new boiler for the hot water but this does not appear to have made any difference to my energy costs. I am kicking myself for not having done more research on perhaps looking at the heating system when I was replacing the boiler.

My last month usage was 419kWh on the standard rate of 32.29p and 434 kWh on the control rate of 31.77p. I am with Scottish Power. Do you think the two rates are similar in the way that you have peak and off peak? Although your charges for each are significantly different.

scull68

ariarnia said:

we arent all electric so can't help with that but one of the things i wonder is if your paying 2 lots of standing charge (which isnt a huge amount but will bump up the monthly cost). 

do you take/give meter readings (so your bills arent based on estemates)?

if you do can you maybe share them with us as its a bit easier to get a sense of whats going on if we can work in kWh not £.

ideally 2 readings about 12 months apart from each meter.  

Hello, yes I have become very regular at submitting my readings so as I know where I stand with regards to what is owed, as my current direct debit is £244 a month and is not covering my usage so they do want to increase this.

Let me login and get accurate information of my readings from this time last year.

Thank you.

pochase

That sounds like one of the legacy tariffs. There should be a third rate if it is the one I am thinking of.

ComfortPlusWhite Meter (CPWM)
This tariff has a Daily Standing Charge which applies regardless of usage and three different kWh rates. These are the ‘Day’, ‘Night’ and ‘Controlled Circuit’ rates and are applied as follows:
• Day and Night rates apply to electricity used for general purposes, excluding storage space heating, during Day and Night times respectively.
• Night is formally defined as any period of 8.5 hours at ScottishPower’s discretion between 22:00 and 08:30 Local Time, but in practice would normally be 00:00 to 08:30 Local Time.
• Day means at all other times
• The Controlled Circuit kWh price applies to electricity supplied via a separate controlled circuit to storage space heating. The controlled circuit operates in one of two ways according to customer’s choice as described below ComfortPlus White Meter with Weathercall O

Otherwise the two rates would be below the single rate EPG, so your are not overpaying for day use.

TheElectricCow

In addition to the good points raised by EssexHebridean, it may help if you’re able to clarify the “two meter” situation any further, particularly with some more information about your tariff e.g. are you paying two sets of standing charges, what is the price difference between the two, and does the time of day have any bearing on these charges.

From my understanding two entirely separate meters are not unheard of but are a bit more of an obscure set up these days, usually used with a tariff that allows things like heating to be charged at a different rate to everything else. Slightly more commonly you may see a set up with a single meter providing multiple readings with a time switching device that activates a separate circuit during off peak nighttime hours.

In terms of comparison, as the others have said, you’ll want to start with the number of units (kwh) you use before considering the actual costs, as everyone could be paying different rates for their own situation. 

And even then property type and your own lifestyle can hugely impact how useful a comparison figure is. For example, my household is also an all electric flat, but I’m a very low user in a new efficient building and only consume around 1600kwh per year, which has come in at an annual cost of about £600. 

There’s likely to be some huge differences in how we each live though, so that figure may not be all that helpful at all e.g. some people may have to use more energy than that on their heating alone and it would not be practical for them to aim for a similar total use to myself.

MattMattMattUK

There are unfortunately so many variables that it makes comparisons very hard. I am all electric, two bed flat 110sq. meters, live alone. I am currently paying £150 pcm as a Direct Debit but that exceeds my winter usage which has so far averaged £128 per month from 01/10 to present, summer usage will be lower. However I am in a new build, well insulated, I do not wase energy but neither am I particularly frugal. 

EssexHebridean

It sounds like your predecessors in the property were suckered in by the idea that storage heaters are inherently "bad" which is a shame as you are now being left to pick up the cost. Allowing that it sounds like there may still be old E7 circuits in place for heaters, it might still be worth you looking into modern High Heat Retention NSH's as an ongoing replacement plan - assuming you own the property. It will take a while for them to "earn back" their cost though as they're not cheap. Both Elnur and Dimplex do HHR options. 

I assume when you say a new "boiler" for water you mean an immersion heater? Even though there isn't a huge difference in your two rates it would make sense to ensure that is ONLY operating during the slightly lower rate time.

As already mentioned, if the two rates you've stated ARE the only two then you are currently paying slightly less than the likely capped price overall. here *might* be the possibility of a bit of saving with a switch to standard economy 7, but a) I'm not convinced that your meter set up would allow this, and b ) it would rely on you shifting a fair bit more load overnight to be able to really benefit I think, allowing for the likely substantially day rate. 

Scot_39

scull68 said:

EssexHebridean said:

OK - the first question here as you say "previously storage heaters" is what sort of heaters are you currently using for heating? By far the cheapest "standard" way of heating an all electric home is via storage heaters - so it's always a huge red flag when they have been removed if not replaced with (what will probably become "standard" inside a few years" a heat pump. 

I'm also in a 2 bed flat - not precisely the same arrangement as you as we do have a gas supply - but it is only used for cooking. Currently I'm using 4000kWh of electricity per year - split 25% day rate 75% night rate over the year. We are with Octopus on E7 - our current peak rate is 48p/kWh and off peak 16p/kWh (rounded for ease). 

Hello, thank you for your reply.

I currently have glass panel heaters in the living room and hallway and dillam panel heaters in the bedrooms. Unfortunately the storage heaters had been removed by the previous owners. I have recently put in a new boiler for the hot water but this does not appear to have made any difference to my energy costs. I am kicking myself for not having done more research on perhaps looking at the heating system when I was replacing the boiler.

My last month usage was 419kWh on the standard rate of 32.29p and 434 kWh on the control rate of 31.77p. I am with Scottish Power. Do you think the two rates are similar in the way that you have peak and off peak? Although your charges for each are significantly different.

GAS - despite rises - is still much cheaper than electric per kWh - epg rate c10.3 vs 34p for sr electric.  So a move to all electric does come as a big shock to many.  A couple of years ago gas itself was more like 4p iirc. 

The control rate you have quoted here for your tariff is not significantly different from the day rate.  And depending on region, payment method and vat, the day rate could just be SR epg rate.

This means a shift to NSH would not be very beneficial on the current tariff.

Energy Use

You obviously feel you need the current levels of warmth - 850kWh for a month whilst high is not excessive in winter.

Ofgem model multirate electric price tables - at just 4000kWh total per annum.  So that probably sets your annual energy needs well on the high end of Ofgem estimate for single small house all electric its based on. 

The Ofgem cap for duel fuel gas is 2900 electric, 12,000kWh - but that assumes more people and a larger property (2-3, 2-3 bed ).

The lower sized duel fuel home iirc 1800 electric.

850 is higher than my 550 kWh for 2 bed mid terrace in Dec 22 - but over double that I used Dec 21 (Dec 22 had a week long cold snap - using c10kWh day more heating).  And I keep my house cooler than many. 
My older neighbours usage was about 60% higher kWh annually for a couple on heat and hot water circuits  - so would increase that 550 to similar levels as yours.
And that's in Midlands, by no means the coldest part of UK.

Just Heating

So at current building losses/ room temps and so energy consumption you would probably need to do both panels and tariff switch to gain benefit.  

Or at least main panels like living room and say hall ( to heat bedrooms indirectly ) using a lot more at cheaper off peak.

But these E7 Tariffs vary wildly. (And are themselves perhaps at risk of going out of favour as older e10 and white meter itself have).

The downside of an aggressive e7 night rate, is the day rate goes higher - one user has quoted their 48 vs 16,  others quote very aggressive like 55 vs 8 etc in one case (EM EDF iirc) - but others are flatter e.g. 45 vs 20 etc.  It appears very regional and supplier dependent.

But without knowing how much of the wiring is left in place, and whether old up to current code,  it is difficult to guess how much it would cost to fit modern nsh - dimplex quantum hhr models retail at upto £900 inc vat each on a quick Google.

And even if e7 wiring OK, they ideally need 2 feeds to simplify use.  So generally another switched spur, requiring an electrician.

You would probably be best getting a quote before even thinking about switching tariffs.

My annual off peak split is around 70% - my winter heating split is over 90% at off peak using NSH - especially during cold snaps. 

Your monthly isnt too far from 50:50  - annually ?

At your current monthly use split - it is possible E7 may already be of benefit - but you would need annual figures and actual specific regional rate quotes to confirm.

But short of going for a heat source pump or air to air through wall mini versions - both of which maybe impractical for a flat - and assuming leased - would certainly need discussing with freeholder.

So the traditional approach is NSH - and as you are out all day - modern HHR versions (read you cannot buy the old type new, but some do sell reconditioned ones as like for like replacement) - and a suitable off peak tariff to charge them.



Improved home Heat Efficiency

The other approach - to improve efficiency - reduce heat losses - windows, external walls etc - as not all flats are energy efficient as they could be.

Are other flat owners concerned - could the freeholder be convinced - and assuming property suitable to upgrade - external panel or cavity insulate - if quorum willing to pay.

If not, are you willing to look into other savings - like double / secondary glazing, internal insulation on just your external walls - cost ??

Even small things like thermal blinds or curtains / curtain liners  on windows - and maybe thermal curtains on doors if hallways internal and external cold can make differences.  Or If high ceilings, fans to stop hot air stagnating at top ?

If ground floor - heat loss down, somethings like thermal underlay, if top floor, heat loss up etc. But may even be difficult to get freeholder to approve more loft insulation.


And although costs of most of these improvements are non trivial - HHR panels or additional insulation will possibly improve your flat EPC and resale value, as well as reduce monthly bills.

Even at current wholesale market lows making headlines - wholesale gas - and so gas generated electric is still around three times the price it was 2 years ago.