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EDF Eco 20:20

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Unclefoobar
Unclefoobar Posts: 69 Forumite
Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
edited 12 February 2023 at 7:03PM in Energy
Just wondering if anyone is still using this old tariff as I've only recently worked out this is the meter I have. 

There was an old thread (now closed) here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1642135/anyone-tried-edf-eco-20-20 .

When I moved into my house 10 years ago, I assumed I was on economy 7 but noticed the times seemed out of sync with the overnight 7 hours E7 especially when I stayed on night rate all weekend.😁😁

It was only when I had solar and battery fitted a few weeks back that I took a proper look at my day / night times.

At present I'm with Octopus E7 paying 43.40 p/kWh  day and 14.53 p/kW night, but these are the discounted rates with the energy price guarantee, should be 82.5 p/kWh & 32.79p/kW. I assume these will revert to full price come April??

With my 5.55kW solar array I'm hoping to sell back unused energy but to do so I've got to have a smart meter fitted, but that means I'll lose my eco 20:20 meter.

From my last bill, my annual usage is:

Estimated Annual
Usage (Day) 2268.9 kWh
Estimated Annual
Usage (Night) 3564.1 kWh

so 39% day and 61% night

I've recently starting using more night rate electric to heat the house and not so much the gas central heating

I have a smart meter booked for March, but does anyone think its worth keeping my old Eco 20:20 meter (and cancel the smart meter)? I know I'll have to change it one day anyway and I can't receive any payback for energy back into the grid without it.


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Comments

  • EssexHebridean
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    I can’t think there is any benefit to keeping it, particularly not as you need the smart meter to work with the panels for exporting? 

    You will still be able to get E7 with the new meter if you want to. 
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  • Mstty
    Mstty Posts: 4,209 Forumite
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    edited 12 February 2023 at 7:28PM
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    At present I'm with Octopus E7 paying 43.40 p/kWh day and 14.53 p/kW night, but these are the discounted rates with the energy price guarantee, should be 82.5 p/kWh & 32.79p/kW. I assume these will revert to full price come April??

    There will still be a discount from April. Just not as good as it is now approx 20% more
  • [Deleted User]
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    You will be better off accepting a smart meter and staying on an E7 tariff. I would recommend Octopus and its Agile Outgoing Variable tariff for SEG.
  • Scot_39
    Scot_39 Posts: 1,937 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper
    edited 14 February 2023 at 5:37PM
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    Just wondering if anyone is still using this old tariff as I've only recently worked out this is the meter I have. 

    There was an old thread (now closed) here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1642135/anyone-tried-edf-eco-20-20 .

    When I moved into my house 10 years ago, I assumed I was on economy 7 but noticed the times seemed out of sync with the overnight 7 hours E7 especially when I stayed on night rate all weekend.😁😁

    It was only when I had solar and battery fitted a few weeks back that I took a proper look at my day / night times.

    At present I'm with Octopus E7 paying 43.40 p/kWh  day and 14.53 p/kW night, but these are the discounted rates with the energy price guarantee, should be 82.5 p/kWh & 32.79p/kW. I assume these will revert to full price come April??

    With my 5.55kW solar array I'm hoping to sell back unused energy but to do so I've got to have a smart meter fitted, but that means I'll lose my eco 20:20 meter.

    From my last bill, my annual usage is:

    Estimated Annual
    Usage (Day) 2268.9 kWh
    Estimated Annual
    Usage (Night) 3564.1 kWh

    so 39% day and 61% night

    I've recently starting using more night rate electric to heat the house and not so much the gas central heating

    I have a smart meter booked for March, but does anyone think its worth keeping my old Eco 20:20 meter (and cancel the smart meter)? I know I'll have to change it one day anyway and I can't receive any payback for energy back into the grid without it.



    EPG

    It is not ending in April, it is increasing from £2500 to £3000.

    Only the EBSS (the £400 or £66/67pm) is ending.

    So whilst it is clear unit rates will go up on average to reflect the 20% increase in EPG - based on fact current Ofgem forecasts for Q2 are still higher than that £3000 - the EPG will remain important - and still be capping domestic prices.

    See posts of Cornwall Insights predictions - for new caps - and then the govt website for new discounted rates - we will know Ofgem numbers in less than 2 weeks.


    ECO20:20 Meter to Smart

    Assuming - and bearing in mind it is just my assumption - Octopus are just billing you E7 straight from existing meter registers for peak / off-peak - you may loose a lot of the off peak usage when move away from ECO20:20 meters.

    Some did that with people migrating from E10 to E7 - others supposedly applied a fiddle to shift a % of off peak to peak IIRC from some posts at the old Economy10 site.

    Don't actually have a 20:20 meter - but from what I have read on EDF site

    The old EDF tariff offerred 20% off normal for whole weekend and 10 hours off evenings and overnight (9 to 7 in winter) - but the actual tariff also charged a big premium for the first several 100 kWh as well. (But it's very unlikely EDF would offer the tariff back to you - and even if did - looking longer term to switch you to their Smart meters and standard tariffs like E7.)

    So thats (24-7) = 17x2 + (10-7)=3x5 = 49 more hours at off-peak - than E7's standard - 7x7 = 49 hours.
     
    (not necessaarily double the electric use though - as things like emersion heater and even storage heaters tend to only activate for main charge at start of off-peak windows anyway).

    Guessing any default replacement Smart meter will be pure E7 - thats 7 hours overnight (not always fixed but say e.g. typically 12 midnight-7am)

    So looking at the old tariff description - you might well lose those extra 49 hours - for the weekend days and mid week evenings at off peak rates.

    That would I guess take a lot of Solar feed in to compensate (as I beleive those rates are still quite small cf EPG levels - or even E7 night levels ).


    GAS Vs Electric

    The current EPG gas rate is still far cheaper than your E7 night rate - say 4p/kWh - so moving to use electric seems a strange choice - for anything other than the energy your solar / battery (edit - oops - you say you have one) can provide.

    Above only things to bear in mind

    But only you will know exactly how E7 billing is being applied to your meter (ie how many registers you read and send to Octopus and how that breaks down into peak / off-peak as billed).

    Then look at the maths again
  • Unclefoobar
    Options
    Scot_39 said:


    EPG

    It is not ending in April, it is increasing from £2500 to £3000.

    Only the EBSS (the £400 or £66/67pm) is ending.

    So whilst it is clear unit rates will go up on average to reflect the 20% increase in EPG - based on fact current Ofgem forecasts for Q2 are still higher than that £3000 - the EPG will remain important - and still be capping domestic prices.

    See posts of Cornwall Insights predictions - for new caps - and then the govt website for new discounted rates - we will know Ofgem numbers in less than 2 weeks.



    ECO20:20 Meter to Smart

    Assuming - and bearing in mind it is just my assumption - Octopus are just billing you E7 straight from existing meter registers for peak / off-peak - you may loose a lot of the off peak usage when move away from ECO20:20 meters.

    Some did that with people migrating from E10 to E7 - others supposedly applied a fiddle to shift a % of off peak to peak IIRC from some posts at the old Economy10 site.

    Don't actually have a 20:20 meter - but from what I have read on EDF site

    The old EDF tariff offerred 20% off normal for whole weekend and 10 hours off evenings and overnight (9 to 7 in winter) - but the actual tariff also charged a big premium for the first several 100 kWh as well. (But it's very unlikely EDF would offer the tariff back to you - and even if did - looking longer term to switch you to their Smart meters and standard tariffs like E7.)

    So thats (24-7) = 17x2 + (10-7)=3x5 = 49 more hours at off-peak - than E7's standard - 7x7 = 49 hours.
     
    (not necessaarily double the electric use though - as things like emersion heater and even storage heaters tend to only activate for main charge at start of off-peak windows anyway).

    Guessing any default replacement Smart meter will be pure E7 - thats 7 hours overnight (not always fixed but say e.g. typically 12 midnight-7am)

    So looking at the old tariff description - you might well lose those extra 49 hours - for the weekend days and mid week evenings at off peak rates.

    That would I guess take a lot of Solar feed in to compensate (as I beleive those rates are still quite small cf EPG levels - or even E7 night levels ).


    GAS Vs Electric

    The current EPG gas rate is still far cheaper than your E7 night rate - say 4p/kWh - so moving to use electric seems a strange choice - for anything other than the energy your solar / battery (edit - oops - you say you have one) can provide.

    Above only things to bear in mind

    But only you will know exactly how E7 billing is being applied to your meter (ie how many registers you read and send to Octopus and how that breaks down into peak / off-peak as billed).

    Then look at the maths again


    When I first moved in, the seller left a note a say the house was on E7 so I just carried on with the E7 tariff albeit with several different suppliers

    My night time rate is 22:00 - 08:00 Monday - Thursday, and then 22:00 Friday - 08:00 Monday (all weekend) as per the rates I listed above. Day time rates obviously in-between those times. You are correct, I gain a lot of extra hours on night time rates compared to E7 times.

    I've started turning down the temperature on the gas central heating and using electric under floor heating and oil filled radiators first thing in the morning (till 08:00) and at the weekend. I record my meter readings weekly now and managed 80% night rate and 20% day rate last week (charging the solar battery at night as well).

    I'll have a crack at working some numbers given the advice given, but with the solar and battery fitted now and steadily improving as the sun gets slightly higher each day, I'll probably look into a tariff more suited to the solar. I'm just well aware there's no going back once the old meter is replaced with a smart meter.


  • Have a look at the new Octopus Flux tariff:

    https://octopus.energy/smart/flux/


  • EssexHebridean
    Options

    <snip>
    My night time rate is 22:00 - 08:00 Monday - Thursday, and then 22:00 Friday - 08:00 Monday (all weekend) as per the rates I listed above. Day time rates obviously in-between those times. You are correct, I gain a lot of extra hours on night time rates compared to E7 times.
    <snip>


    I think this is the first time you have given this detail? If you are definitely being charge the off peak rate for that amount of time (ie - 10 hours overnight through the week, plus the whole weekend) then some of the earlier advice on the thread (including mine, that I could see no benefit to you keeping the old meter) is probably now wrong - I read your OP as that being the original setup, but you were now on "standard" E7. I would doubt that you will keep those timings if you change to a SM. The Flux account  mentioned might be a good compromise though. 
    🎉 MORTGAGE FREE (First time!) 30/09/2016 🎉 And now we go again…New mortgage taken 01/09/23 🏡
    Balance as at 01/09/23 = £115,000.00
    Balance as at 31/12/23 = £112,000.00
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  • Scot_39
    Scot_39 Posts: 1,937 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper
    edited 15 February 2023 at 9:02PM
    Options
    Scot_39 said:


    EPG

    It is not ending in April, it is increasing from £2500 to £3000.

    Only the EBSS (the £400 or £66/67pm) is ending.

    So whilst it is clear unit rates will go up on average to reflect the 20% increase in EPG - based on fact current Ofgem forecasts for Q2 are still higher than that £3000 - the EPG will remain important - and still be capping domestic prices.

    See posts of Cornwall Insights predictions - for new caps - and then the govt website for new discounted rates - we will know Ofgem numbers in less than 2 weeks.



    ECO20:20 Meter to Smart

    Assuming - and bearing in mind it is just my assumption - Octopus are just billing you E7 straight from existing meter registers for peak / off-peak - you may loose a lot of the off peak usage when move away from ECO20:20 meters.

    Some did that with people migrating from E10 to E7 - others supposedly applied a fiddle to shift a % of off peak to peak IIRC from some posts at the old Economy10 site.

    Don't actually have a 20:20 meter - but from what I have read on EDF site

    The old EDF tariff offerred 20% off normal for whole weekend and 10 hours off evenings and overnight (9 to 7 in winter) - but the actual tariff also charged a big premium for the first several 100 kWh as well. (But it's very unlikely EDF would offer the tariff back to you - and even if did - looking longer term to switch you to their Smart meters and standard tariffs like E7.)

    So thats (24-7) = 17x2 + (10-7)=3x5 = 49 more hours at off-peak - than E7's standard - 7x7 = 49 hours.
     
    (not necessaarily double the electric use though - as things like emersion heater and even storage heaters tend to only activate for main charge at start of off-peak windows anyway).

    Guessing any default replacement Smart meter will be pure E7 - thats 7 hours overnight (not always fixed but say e.g. typically 12 midnight-7am)

    So looking at the old tariff description - you might well lose those extra 49 hours - for the weekend days and mid week evenings at off peak rates.

    That would I guess take a lot of Solar feed in to compensate (as I beleive those rates are still quite small cf EPG levels - or even E7 night levels ).


    GAS Vs Electric

    The current EPG gas rate is still far cheaper than your E7 night rate - say 4p/kWh - so moving to use electric seems a strange choice - for anything other than the energy your solar / battery (edit - oops - you say you have one) can provide.

    Above only things to bear in mind

    But only you will know exactly how E7 billing is being applied to your meter (ie how many registers you read and send to Octopus and how that breaks down into peak / off-peak as billed).

    Then look at the maths again


    When I first moved in, the seller left a note a say the house was on E7 so I just carried on with the E7 tariff albeit with several different suppliers

    My night time rate is 22:00 - 08:00 Monday - Thursday, and then 22:00 Friday - 08:00 Monday (all weekend) as per the rates I listed above. Day time rates obviously in-between those times. You are correct, I gain a lot of extra hours on night time rates compared to E7 times.

    I've started turning down the temperature on the gas central heating and using electric under floor heating and oil filled radiators first thing in the morning (till 08:00) and at the weekend. I record my meter readings weekly now and managed 80% night rate and 20% day rate last week (charging the solar battery at night as well).

    I'll have a crack at working some numbers given the advice given, but with the solar and battery fitted now and steadily improving as the sun gets slightly higher each day, I'll probably look into a tariff more suited to the solar. I'm just well aware there's no going back once the old meter is replaced with a smart meter.



    In winter according to the EDF site the times are 9-7am - not 10pm-8am - those are the summer time timings - and the meter doesn't distinguish - it stays fixed on GMT time.


    You might want to adjust that last hour of electric heating - it's probably using your higher peak E7 rate right now - unless your panels kicking in.

    Oh and adjust any settings on the battery invertor accordingly if needed.

    See Section 3.6 of the eco20:20 product terms in


    Namely

    ..."Eco20:20’s off-peak electricity unit
    rate applies between 9pm and 7am weekdays and all

    weekend. The off-peak electricity rate is currently

    20% cheaper than the Eco20:20 day rate . The

    Eco20:20 tariff is set to GMT times, which means

    when the clocks change to British Summer Time, your

    off-peak times will be 10pm until 8am on weekdays."



  • Unclefoobar
    Options
    I took the plunge and had a smart meter fitted 2 days ago and now signed up for Octopus Flux. No going back now, we'll have to change timers / habits and do a sun dance every morning
  • Scot_39
    Scot_39 Posts: 1,937 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper
    Options
    Thanks for the update.
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