Accountant costs

billy2shots

Technically a micro busines

Turnover £525k
EBIDA circa £150k
15 employees


Been with the same accountant for almost 20 years. 
I do all payroll and monthly accounts. He finalises end of year and notifies HMRC. He's also able to advise on tax efficiencies. 

Costs have been going up year on year and currently stand at £4,500 (just business, private tax return paid separately). 

My accountant is getting slower and owe at responding. 

End of year was December 31st. Usually wait untill the beginning of Feb to drop the physical books off and sage accounts back up. 

No reply to emails asking if he's ready for them at the start of Feb. 

Telephone call three days ago to

 receptionist who says ' I'm sure we are ready for them but will check and call you straight back'

Still no phone call. 

Can't help feeling my £4.5k is not getting value but have nothing to compare it to. 

Anyone care to share?

Jeremy535897

Is this a company? Do you do the VAT? 

DullGreyGuy

billy2shots said:
He's also able to advise on tax efficiencies. 

This is and 

billy2shots said:
to drop the physical books off

are the two key bits

Advice is billed at a much higher rate than technical accounting and opens them much wider to the potential of being sued. So how much advice are you getting? Is it being rolled up into the fee or billed separately?

What are physical books about? What is your line of business? How many transactions is your turnover made of? Do you have complexities like stock to deal with?

We run a slightly smaller business with a higher EBITDA and just two directors. Our accountants do payroll (calcs and filing but not payment), VAT, Corporation tax/returns and the two directors self assessments for £1,020 gross per year but that hasnt changed in 12 years. Our business is simple though, all electronic records and just a couple of high value invoices a month coming in. 

Technically, ours doesnt include advice which is billable by the hour but in reality if you call them and ask how does an EV company car work then you'll get a free phone call back to say. If you want it in writing then there'd probably be a charge.

billy2shots

DullGreyGuy said:

billy2shots said:
He's also able to advise on tax efficiencies. 

This is and 

billy2shots said:
to drop the physical books off

are the two key bits

Advice is billed at a much higher rate than technical accounting and opens them much wider to the potential of being sued. So how much advice are you getting? Is it being rolled up into the fee or billed separately?

What are physical books about? What is your line of business? How many transactions is your turnover made of? Do you have complexities like stock to deal with?

We run a slightly smaller business with a higher EBITDA and just two directors. Our accountants do payroll (calcs and filing but not payment), VAT, Corporation tax/returns and the two directors self assessments for £1,020 gross per year but that hasnt changed in 12 years. Our business is simple though, all electronic records and just a couple of high value invoices a month coming in. 

Technically, ours doesnt include advice which is billable by the hour but in reality if you call them and ask how does an EV company car work then you'll get a free phone call back to say. If you want it in writing then there'd probably be a charge.

We are a Ltd. No sperate VAT stuff as we pay it in all purchases. 

Very little in the way of advice really. A chat here and there when dropping off and picking up the books (I'll get back to that) and I'd I need to see him for my personal tax return. 

Advice has not been billed separately. Just one figure. 

I didn't initially set this up as two other former directors arranged this part of the business 20 years ago and only left 18 months ago. It feels like I'm paying a retainer.

The books. 
Basically folders broken down into individual months with bank statements in, plus physical receipts for those individual months. 
Monthly accounts done by me on  Sage  and a copy handed over with the folders. For annual filing and corporation tax calculation. 

Industry is social care. 

Approx 15 payments in and 20-30 transactions out. 

As said. I do all payroll and pensions. 

£4.5k still feeling high. 

Jeremy535897

I assume that you mean that you are not registered for VAT as your supplies are exempt? This is a specialist area and there can be opportunities. A brief pointer here:
https://thecareruk.com/reducing-vat-costs-for-care-homes/

When you say "monthly accounts done by me on Sage and a copy handed over", do you mean a copy of the computer files on USB? That would suggest to me that all your paperwork that you hand over is for the accountant to check against your computer records, and amend where necessary? Are your Sage records updated by the accountant for adjustments at the year end?

£4,500 sounds a lot for this service. I suggest that you talk to a couple of local accountancy firms. I think your business is significant enough for them to want to do a brief presentation around what they can do for you, and at what cost. Even if you want to stay with your existing accountant, approaching them with the knowledge that you have a lower quote (assuming you have) and asking them to explain why their fees are where they are may produce some savings.

billy2shots

Jeremy535897 said:

I assume that you mean that you are not registered for VAT as your supplies are exempt? This is a specialist area and there can be opportunities. A brief pointer here:
https://thecareruk.com/reducing-vat-costs-for-care-homes/

No exemptions. Nothing technical re vat. We pay all vat on purchases and claim nothing back. 

When you say "monthly accounts done by me on Sage and a copy handed over", do you mean a copy of the computer files on USB?

Yes, handed over at year end. 

That would suggest to me that all your paperwork that you hand over is for the accountant to check against your computer records, and amend where necessary? Are your Sage records updated by the accountant for adjustments at the year end?

Yes that is correct although no adjustments needed as everything tallies and is finalised by myself  They do journal in for the new year so I can begin inputting the now current trading year info. 

£4,500 sounds a lot for this service. I suggest that you talk to a couple of local accountancy firms. I think your business is significant enough for them to want to do a brief presentation around what they can do for you, and at what cost. Even if you want to stay with your existing accountant, approaching them with the knowledge that you have a lower quote (assuming you have) and asking them to explain why their fees are where they are may produce some savings.

Added in bold to your questions. 

Thank you for your time and input.


I should also add that no subscriptions are included. I pay separately for my Iris licensing and online payslips.  

CKhalvashi

As above, this seems a bit steep, but we're in the position where £525k could be as little as 10 transactions a month so it will depend on exactly what you're doing and your average transaction value etc.

I can only echo the advice to speak to some local accountancy firms as they'll be the ones who can present you with how they'd handle your affairs.

Jeremy535897

I would confirm that I think £4,500 sounds a lot for this, and I suggest you talk to a couple of accountancy firms as I indicated.