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APCOA PCN in Richmond Station Car Park

Hello, I have read some previous posts and also the FAQ in the Newbie post but would like to get specific help on my situation.

I recently parked in the Richmond rail station car park and when I went to pay via the Ringo App (which is what I usually do),  I got a message that said an automatic camera was in use that would record the entry and exit and charge accordingly, so I signed up to that. I recall seeing it on the parking history the following day but without a charge, I figured it was still processing the parking session and forgot about it.  In the meantime the keeper of the vehicle has been issued with a penalty notice by post citing breach of the railway byelaws as displayed in the signage at the location (I attach a picture of said signage).  The letter provided very dark and blurred images of the car entering and leaving the car park with an two additional smaller slightly clearer images of the number plate.  I have gone back into the parking history on the Ringo app and all evidence of that parking session has disappeared and when I asked Ringo they said they have no evidence on their system of that session. 

The penalty notice from APCOA does not mention the POFA 2012, but as had been mentioned on previous posts this seems irrelevant due to the railway byelaws.  They mention something about the possibility of keeping the information for 6 years etc etc. 

What is the best route to appeal?

Thanks in advance for your help.


Replies

  • B789B789 Forumite
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    It's APCOA so reasonably benign. Do not give away the identity of the driver... oops! You already have in your post. Get it edited if you can to just state either "driver" or "keeper". No "I", "me", "my" etc. 

    One of the forum regulars will be along shortly and will give better advice than I am able to but as far as I am aware, if it is a Penalty Notice under bylaws then you need to string this out as long as possible so that as long as they don't take you to court within 6 months of the event, it will time out.

    Appeal as late as possible. No matter what the outcome of the appeal, you delay and delay as long as possible. The cows testicles information they gave you about 6 years applies to a Parking, not a Penalty Charge Notice.

    Read and re-read the Newbies thread and continue reading it until you understand the advice being given in it. You can also search the forum for similar cases but make sure you are following the advice about "Penalty" and not "Parking" Charge Notices.

    Liability is on the driver. They do not know who the driver is and they can't transfer liability to the keeper. So, no giving away the drivers identity.
    Good grammar adds tone and nuance to the "written" word which is normally perceived in the "spoken" word. Without good grammar, you can be perceived to be an idiot or a fool without ever uttering a sound.
  • edited 10 February at 2:54AM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    edited 10 February at 2:54AM
    In fact because it 'times out' within 6 months, I'd play it like this, with carefully delayed responses at all times.

    - Keeper waits till the last day the penalty says for appeal, and then goes online & transfers liability to you, giving your name & address.  ALREADY MORE THAN ONE MONTH GONE!

    - APCOA send you a Penalty notice (PROBABLY 2 MORE WEEKS GONE).

    - You only appeal on the very last day.  ANOTHER MONTH GONE.

    - APCOA eventually respond, giving you a POPLA Code.  AT LEAST TWO MORE WEEKS GONE.

    - You wait till day 32 (a day before POPLA Code expires) and put in a POPLA appeal copied from othed APCOA railway penalty ones.  ANOTHER MONTH GONE.

    - POPLA send your appeal to APCOA who then provide an evidence pack, giving you 7 days from then to comment (which you obviously don't rush).  ANOTHER MONTH GONE.

    POPLA then tell you that you've lost.  You ignore it and the six months limitation period is then passed within weeks.  Nothing will happen.


      
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • B789B789 Forumite
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    A quick question for @Coupon-mad... as this is a "Penalty" notice under bylaws, how come POPLA are involved? I appreciate that they could quash this but, if they don't, is it then a matter for a magistrate court and if it would ever get that far (because all the steps advised were not followed precisely) are APCOA even likely to take it that far considering that, even if the OP lost at this stage, any moneys claimed would go to the public purse and not to APCOA anyway?

    Have APCOA ever taken a Penalty notice under bylaws to court? As they are just bottom feeding scum, are they likely to put any effort or cost into prosecuting this all the way to Magistrate court?
    Good grammar adds tone and nuance to the "written" word which is normally perceived in the "spoken" word. Without good grammar, you can be perceived to be an idiot or a fool without ever uttering a sound.
  • edited 10 February at 3:03AM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad
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    edited 10 February at 3:03AM
    None of these APCOA penalties have gone to any court, ever.  APCOA can't bring it to Magistrates Court.  The railway could - but that's not how it works in practice.

    The BPA and POPLA decided a few years back that they should hear 'byelaws penalty' cases for the first time. So that's why they can be dragged through POPLA, a useful time-wasting exercise to help victims get to the 6 month expiry date.

    Not that there is any risk of court.

    APCOA are content with the tens of thousands of people who get PCNs (of whichever type) from them and who just pay up.

    They make a fortune anyway due to the sheer numbers of "low hanging fruit" victims who think it's a real fine.


    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • B789B789 Forumite
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    So, if it failed at POPLA, APCOA have no standing to progress a "Penalty" Charge Notice, which is obviously based on bylaws, any further and it would have to be the landowner (railway operator/airport owner etc.) who has to take it to magistrate court?
    Good grammar adds tone and nuance to the "written" word which is normally perceived in the "spoken" word. Without good grammar, you can be perceived to be an idiot or a fool without ever uttering a sound.
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad
    116K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Forumite
    Yep and the 6 months will be up and anyway, these never go to court.

    A few TOCS issue their own penalties that they sometimes pursue but not this one.

    This is merely a charade of a penalty. Works for APCOA quite nicely because the British public are so easily duped and so many seem to forget all common sense and how to Google, when they get a half-decent attempt at an official-looking letter.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • CloudparkerCloudparker Forumite
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    First Post
    Newbie
    Contact your bank. I just had a very similar fine cancelled. See my recent post to this forum: 
    • Posting this in case it is helpful to anyone who has paid for parking via Ringo, but Ringo failed to take the payment and a PCN ensued. 

      I used the Ringo app to pay for a day's parking at my local station. I received the bank notification to approve the payment, which I authorised. Unbeknownst to me, Ringo failed to complete the transaction and the first thing I knew about this was a fine in the post. Luckily I thought to contact my bank and they quickly messaged me to confirm that my authorisation was successful processed and they had indeed authorised Ringo to take the payment. Apcoa cancelled my fine on the strength of this evidence.

      This was my letter to Apcoa: "I booked and paid for this parking via the Ringo App. On booking, Ringo sent a notification to my xxxx Bank app which I approved. I called xxxx Bank as they have records of all attempted transactions; they confirmed that both I and they approved the payment, but that later Ringo failed to process it. See attached screen grab from xxxx Bank (their messages are in app and cannot be screenshot or downloaded for security reasons). In summary, I followed the required process to book a ticket, as confirmed by my bank. Your operator failed to complete the transaction."

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