SWIFT payment gone missing

Band7

Marchitiello said:

@Band7 I have just read this thread  after your response in the other “currency discussion” thread.

I am sorry it took a while but the £25 fee issues was discussed early on in my 2016 (or thereabouts) Fineco Thread. Basically, some UK banks see Fineco payments as foreign and charges a fee, but they should not. In any case, there are some specific banks that do not do that (Nationwide being one of them). So it was Santander that withheld the £25 in the first place and also rejected the payment, so not sure why you concluded that using Fineco is not suitable any longer … 

You missed the bit that I had made over two dozen payments from Fineco to Santander without any charge, over a period of over 2 years. You also missed the bit that Santander did not admit that they charged the £25 (their official charges for SWIFT are between £0 and £25) and that it was Fineco who refunded the £25, not Santander. The final bits you missed is that I do need the funds in my Santander account and that I have concluded that the small Fineco exchange rate advantage  it is not worth my while taking the risk of having to chase my money for days on end (on top of the standard very slow processing by Fineco) and potentially having to pay £25.

I am very happy to pay Wise a tiny bit more each month for a fast, reliable service with 100% of the costs known upfront, and I will never again recommend Fineco to anyone sending Euros to GBP.

masonic

wmb194 said:

masonic said:

Marchitiello said:

@Band7 I have just read this thread  after your response in the other “currency discussion” thread.

I am sorry it took a while but the £25 fee issues was discussed early on in my 2016 (or thereabouts) Fineco Thread. Basically, some UK banks see Fineco payments as foreign and charges a fee, but they should not. In any case, there are some specific banks that do not do that (Nationwide being one of them). So it was Santander that withheld the £25 in the first place and also rejected the payment, so not sure why you concluded that using Fineco is not suitable any longer … 

Thought Santander was the second bank, alongside Nationwide, that was recommended to be used as a result of not charging for inward SEPA payments. Clearly Band7 was not charged for any of the other successful transactions made prior to this problematic one.

I'm not sure that Fineco is using Sepa to make transfers to British banks anymore: Nationwide describes them now as Chaps deposits. 

For Chaps it's (always?) the sender that's charged: could it be that Santander returned it by Chaps - as this is how it was received - and charged its usual £25 fee? 

If it's a risk that this could be a 'thing' with Fineco it could be that Barclays is a better choice now as it doesn't charge* its customers for Chaps payments.

*Though if you cancel or amend a payment you'll be charged £20.

Agree it's clear they have stopped using SEPA, but the information Marchitiello was referring to came from that era. There is a question about when they stopped using SEPA, and whether this was the first instance of a SWIFT transfer to Band7's Santander account.

It seems very unlikely that the inward transfer from Fineco was via CHAPS, as the clearing infrastructure should have ensured the payment could be accepted by Santander (Santander is a direct participant).

It does make me wonder how it is economically viable for Fineco to continue if stuck with rather expensive methods of processing customer withdrawals.

However, if you are correct about it being re-transferred back, then this article could be of relevance: https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/bank-liable-for-reversing-suspicious-chaps-transfer

Band7

Fineco doesn't use CHAPS, but if I understand correctly, CHAPS uses the SWIFT protocol, so I suppose a 'normal' SWIFT payment could be mistaken for a CHAPS payment.

Leaving this aside, I have been assured by both, Fineco and Santander that there have been no recent changes to their processing of incoming and outgoing payments, be they domestic or international. Whether I was told the truth is a different matter - as a mere customer, I have no means of verifying what they tell me. This uncertainty is a major part of my decision not to use Fineco again for any of my very regular EUR to GBP transactions.

Marchitiello

Fineco does not apply charges and in fact has the warning that do not and that the receiver bank may apply charges…

When UK banks other than the ones known not to do so  in that thread were applying charges when Fineco first launched, it was Fineco indeed that was refunding customers, or at least have done so for people I know personally.

They would apply the refund and than chase Santander for the money, that is actually good CS, but does not mean they took it in the first place, as a matter of fact, I am 100% sure they never took the charge and was Santander that did so. I have just done a test payment to myself to see how it comes through (to NationWide) to confirm the CHAPS changes mentioned above 

Band7

Marchitiello said:

Fineco does not apply charges and in fact has the warning that do not and that the receiver bank may apply charges…

When UK banks other than the ones known not to do so  in that thread were applying charges when Fineco first launched, it was Fineco indeed that was refunding customers, or at least have done so for people I know personally.

They would apply the refund and than chase Santander for the money, that is actually good CS, but does not mean they took it in the first place, as a matter of fact, I am 100% sure they never took the charge and was Santander that did so. I have just done a test payment to myself to see how it comes through (to NationWide) to confirm the CHAPS changes mentioned above 

Funny that they never told me that this is what they would do. 

In any case, you don't need to continue defending or finding excuses for Fineco as my decision has been made and stands: I will not ever use or recommend Fineco again for EUR to GBP transactions - and as I have no other use for them, I will never again send any money from Fineco to a UK current account.

wmb194

Marchitiello said:

I have just done a test payment to myself to see how it comes through (to NationWide) to confirm the CHAPS changes mentioned above 

On Sunday evening I initiated a test payment to my Barclays current account and it's now arrived and it has been described by Barclays as a, "CHAPS payment."

Band7

wmb194 said:

Marchitiello said:

I have just done a test payment to myself to see how it comes through (to NationWide) to confirm the CHAPS changes mentioned above 

On Sunday evening I initiated a test payment to my Barclays current account and it's now arrived and it has been described by Barclays as a, "CHAPS payment."
.

None of my numerous payments from Fineco to Santander were described as CHAPS payments. Not in the transaction data visible to me, anyway.

wmb194

Band7 said:

wmb194 said:

Marchitiello said:

I have just done a test payment to myself to see how it comes through (to NationWide) to confirm the CHAPS changes mentioned above 

On Sunday evening I initiated a test payment to my Barclays current account and it's now arrived and it has been described by Barclays as a, "CHAPS payment."
.

None of my numerous payments from Fineco to Santander were described as CHAPS payments. Not in the transaction data visible to me, anyway.

How does Santander describe them for recent deposits?

Band7

wmb194 said:

Band7 said:

wmb194 said:

Marchitiello said:

I have just done a test payment to myself to see how it comes through (to NationWide) to confirm the CHAPS changes mentioned above 

On Sunday evening I initiated a test payment to my Barclays current account and it's now arrived and it has been described by Barclays as a, "CHAPS payment."
.

None of my numerous payments from Fineco to Santander were described as CHAPS payments. Not in the transaction data visible to me, anyway.

How does Santander describe them for recent deposits?

It's always been a "Transfer from" a long string consisting of my name, part of my address, and a gobbledegook reference number which is different for every payment.

Santander don't normally state the payment method for incoming payments. It's usually just the name of the payer. Though sometimes, e.g. for Premium Bond wins, they state "Bank Giro Credit"

Marchitiello

wmb194 said:

Marchitiello said:

I have just done a test payment to myself to see how it comes through (to NationWide) to confirm the CHAPS changes mentioned above 

On Sunday evening I initiated a test payment to my Barclays current account and it's now arrived and it has been described by Barclays as a, "CHAPS payment."

Did the same test to Nationwide, and definitely different from previous transfers, it now shows as “CHAPS credit 1 / Surname Name (Fineco ACC Name)”

I am thinking that they switched to CHAPS payments to avoid the receiving banks applying charges, but then if the receiving banks later decide to return the payment using the same method, may well charge £25 for the service 🙈 

all other (Fast) Payments from UK banks simply shows as “Bank credit Name Surname” from Nationwide end.