Legit parking but missed registering the car resulting in PCN that was sent to old address

Grizebeck

Euro parking are just a bunch of liars

Not_A_Hope

So far we have not talked with the Euro Car Parking or their Lawyers.

Under no circumstances should you call and talk with either Euro Car Parking or their ‘Lawyers’. They will only pressurise you into paying what is effectively a scam.

Only the letter from the solicitors which reads like the letter of claim. 

You need to be be clear on whether you have a Letter of /Before Claim. Once they issue one they are likely to follow it up with a court claim. They may wait a little while to see if you pay up before they pay for filing a claim.

Could you please clarify... they have hired Gladstones Solicitors, that would be lawyers wouldn't it?   

Any debt collectors that collect parking charges for PPCs work on a no win no fee basis. Similarly Gladstone solicitors are part of a massive scam feeding in the trough of a billion pound industry. In a small claims court they can only claim a maximum of £50 in fees for attending court. The PPC has not paid them anything yet to pursue this alleged debt.

Perhaps you should ask the store owner to dust off the stupid agreement he made with this parking company and show you where it says they cannot cancel PCNs. 

kaboo

Not_A_Hope said:

So far we have not talked with the Euro Car Parking or their Lawyers.

Under no circumstances should you call and talk with either Euro Car Parking or their ‘Lawyers’. They will only pressurise you into paying what is effectively a scam.

Only the letter from the solicitors which reads like the letter of claim. 

You need to be be clear on whether you have a Letter of /Before Claim. Once they issue one they are likely to follow it up with a court claim. They may wait a little while to see if you pay up before they pay for filing a claim.

Could you please clarify... they have hired Gladstones Solicitors, that would be lawyers wouldn't it?   

Any debt collectors that collect parking charges for PPCs work on a no win no fee basis. Similarly Gladstone solicitors are part of a massive scam feeding in the trough of a billion pound industry. In a small claims court they can only claim a maximum of £50 in fees for attending court. The PPC has not paid them anything yet to pursue this alleged debt.

Perhaps you should ask the store owner to dust off the stupid agreement he made with this parking company and show you where it says they cannot cancel PCNs. 

I am confused! If I follow plan B then it means I have to appeal to the Euro PArking Services. I have clarified in the more recent update that we have Letter Before Claim! So if the next step they take is to initiate court proceedings - is it 100% certain that it will be a small claims court? Because the Letter Before Claim mentions County Court?

KeithP

kaboo said:

Not_A_Hope said:

So far we have not talked with the Euro Car Parking or their Lawyers.

Under no circumstances should you call and talk with either Euro Car Parking or their ‘Lawyers’. They will only pressurise you into paying what is effectively a scam.

Only the letter from the solicitors which reads like the letter of claim. 

You need to be be clear on whether you have a Letter of /Before Claim. Once they issue one they are likely to follow it up with a court claim. They may wait a little while to see if you pay up before they pay for filing a claim.

Could you please clarify... they have hired Gladstones Solicitors, that would be lawyers wouldn't it?   

Any debt collectors that collect parking charges for PPCs work on a no win no fee basis. Similarly Gladstone solicitors are part of a massive scam feeding in the trough of a billion pound industry. In a small claims court they can only claim a maximum of £50 in fees for attending court. The PPC has not paid them anything yet to pursue this alleged debt.

Perhaps you should ask the store owner to dust off the stupid agreement he made with this parking company and show you where it says they cannot cancel PCNs. 

So if the next step they take is to initiate court proceedings - is it 100% certain that it will be a small claims court? Because the Letter Before Claim mentions County Court?

Same thing.
'Small Claims Court' is just a phrase used to describe a part of a County Court that handles money claims under £10,000.

Coupon-mad

They have not 'hired' lawyers because (as @Not_A_Hope told you above) Gladstones act on a 'no-win-no-fee' basis.

Tell the shop owner that his agents are lying to him.  They have not HIRED anyone; no money has changed hands; they can cancel this pointless PCN as easily as any.

Tell him he needs to end this contract entirely (this year) because he is losing customers and doesn't need any parking firm.  Does he REALLY want his customers 'fined' and for them to shop elsewhere?  What is wrong with retailers who are daft enough to sign up for this crap aggressive rubbish and let it continue?!

You should obviously reply by email to Gladstones, but IMHO there's no need for us to tell anyone that.  You are in a pre-court phase and you are about to get a court claim (no big deal, and no risk, BTW).  So, of course you reply to a LBC and no filling in any 'forms'.

You can easily find how to respond, by searching the forum for Gladstones robust LBC response.

There are hundreds of Gladstones threads and umpteen examples from last year you can read.

kaboo

Thank you for suggestions.

Just chatted with the store owner and he says that for all the other customers he got PCNs cancelled very easily, in first attempt as soon as he would talk with the parking company. But this time they are not budging because the case is now with solicitors because we ignored/missed the PCNs and reminders. 

So I have drafted the following email that I am sending to all three parties with proofs that we shopped at the store and that our address was updated with DVLA (may be later than the first PCN but we dont know that but definitely before any reminders if they were sent). In our case timelines are a bit convoluted because the first correspondence we received was the letter before claim. We tried to follow the Plan A but it has taken so long and now plan B and next steps need to be done while plan A is still in progress. Store owner will try to talk with parking company's manager next week.

Lots of people have spent a lot of time and effort in fighting these scams. I appreciate that, for fighting off the scammers and for showing a way out for others like me. I am not the kind of person to stand down from a fight. In fact, being an immigrant I have had to fight back on quite a few occasion through out my time in UK and Europe, be it pushy tenancy agents or the Home Office. But, right now there are other much more important things in my life that demand my attention. One little child and a new baby to look after without any family around to support us. I have just come out of redundancy and trying to find my feet at the new job while supporting my family and wife to recover from pregnancy. Not complaining but just trying to say that I just cannot afford for this parking issue to drag on because I don’t have the time and energy for this at the moment. 

So my request to you all is, what can I do at this stage, in the next week or so, to get this resolved. Could I add anything else in this email or a threat to escalate this to the MPs? If you can help thank you, if you cannot then thanks for taking time to read through my messages. Cheers,

Email:

To,

xxxx Stores Owner, Euro Parking Services and Gladstones Solicitors

Sub: regarding PCN xxxx for parking on xx-xxx-2022

Please refer to the Letter Before Claim reference xxxx.xxx regarding PCN xxxxxx. On the day, xx-xxx-2022, we had come to XXXX Stores and used the provided car park. I am attaching a copy of our credit card statement that shows on page 5 that we had paid using this card at your shop. Therefore, we parked there as customers and we should not be charged for that. 

Also, the first correspondence we received in this regard was the Letter Before Claim from Gladstones Solicitors for the alleged parking issue. It seems that the PCN and the subsequent reminders were sent to our old address, they should have been sent to our new address that was updated with DVLA on xx-xxxx-2022 (proof attached).

Therefore, we find it very unfair that we are getting penalised without any mistake on our part. For parking at XXXX Stores when we did actually shop there, and for ignoring the PCN and reminders when we never received.

Therefore, firstly we are making a Subject Access Request to Euro Parking Service Ltd and Gladstone solicitors to disclose all the information they have about the parking issue along with all the proofs. Please include any photographs taken, any letters or mails (including the PCN and subsequent reminders) sent to us, along with the dates on which they were sent and the addresses to which they were sent. 

Secondly, we are requesting Gladstone Solicitors to put a hold for at least 30 days on any proceedings while we wait for the Subject Access Request and take legal advice and most importantly to give the XXXX Stores owners time to get this resolved. 

Thank you and best wishes,

Mr xxx xxxx and Mrs xxx xxxxx

Address: 

B789

I'm sorry, but that just sounds like a begging/pleading letter which will, if not ignored, be laughed at by the PPC and Gladstones. You are dealing with bottom-dwelling PPCs and their equally gutter-snot legal firms.

You don't appear to appreciate how big a scam this is. If you're going to send a letter by email, just address it to one party and CC the others if necessary but pleading your case like that is futile.

and that our address was updated with DVLA (may be later than the first PCN but we dont know that but definitely before any reminders if they were sent).

The PPC can only make one request to the DVLA. They can't go back later and check if the address has changed. It is the owner's responsibility to update their address on the V5C as soon as the address change occurs. We all understand that life gets in the way of some of these administrative tasks when we move and if the PPC/Lawyers have not had any response after sending their letters, they should perform a soft search to find your details from a credit reference agency. How did they find your new address?

So, technically, it is your fault that they didn't have your current address. However, perhaps you should demand that they reset the clock, especially if the PCN was issued very shortly before your move. If they reset, you can then demand that the store owner get the PCN cancelled.

You really need to stress to the store owner how much business they are going to lose if they let their agent, the PPC, dictate to them who is in charge. Explain that the owner is equally liable for the actions and conduct of their agents. The loss of income from you, your family, your friends and acquaintances, if you take your business elsewhere, will be far more painful than accepting the lies of their agent.

If your letter above is meant to be a response to the LoC, then address it as such to Gladrags. If you want to CC in the store owner, then that's fine. However, your response to an LoC should be very robust as explained in the Newbies thread.

Grizebeck

Why are you sending a begging letter

kaboo

B789 said:

The PPC can only make one request to the DVLA. They can't go back later and check if the address has changed. It is the owner's responsibility to update their address on the V5C as soon as the address change occurs. We all understand that life gets in the way of some of these administrative tasks when we move and if the PPC/Lawyers have not had any response after sending their letters, they should perform a soft search to find your details from a credit reference agency. How did they find your new address?

Thank you, I did not know this. In the Letter Before Claim they said to have "carried out an UK Search trace" which produced a trace address for us. We should confirm our new address otherwise they will keep sending future letters, including about court proceedings, to be issued at the old address. So far I have not written to them because I was hoping to get it resolved by the store owner who was very confident that it will be easily cancelled. 

 However, perhaps you should demand that they reset the clock, especially if the PCN was issued very shortly before your move. If they reset, you can then demand that the store owner get the PCN cancelled.

We moved in June 2021, parking issue occurred on 01-Aug-2022, address was changed on 01-Sep-2022, we received Letter Before Claim on 26-Jan-2023. 

Re why I am writing a polite letter (which probably will be seen as begging by many) because that is how I would write a letter. I can write a robust letter in a strong language, but I am not looking to drag this on. If it gets resolved now ok otherwise I will pay the claim to move on. Perhaps I want to leave some room to reduce the claim to the "discounted" amount that appears in the first PCN. 

Re the store owner, I have talked with him multiple times, nicely and threateningly on different days. He apologises profusely and is getting pushed back by the PPC. From what he says, it has never been difficult and he got 10s of PCNs cancelled for other customers. PPC is refusing to cancel just this one because it is now with Gladstones. 

B789

kaboo said:
Thank you, I did not know this. In the Letter Before Claim they said to have "carried out an UK Search trace" which produced a trace address for us. We should confirm our new address otherwise they will keep sending future letters, including about court proceedings, to be issued at the old address. So far I have not written to them because I was hoping to get it resolved by the store owner who was very confident that it will be easily cancelled. 

Just goes to show how the scammers that they are, are treating you. They will be able to see from their "Search trace" dates that are later than Aug 2022 when the PCN was issued.

They are lying scumbags and you should show this to the store owner. They got your address from the DVLA in August 2022. They then had no response to any of their communications. Around January 2023 they performed a search and found your current address and that search will have given them some dates as to when info was updated such as when you were listed on the electoral roll. They KNOW that your old address is wrong and threatening to use that in future litigation is just typical of how low in the sewer they are. In fact, you could use that against them and make a complaint to the SRA.

Right now, aside from a SAR to the PPC, you should also demand a SAR from the solicitors to see when they performed their search and what info that search revealed about you.

You should robustly respond to that LoC towards the end of the 30 days they gave you, not sooner, indicating that you are seeking debt advice, although no debt is agreed upon and that they must allow you a reasonable period for the advice to be obtained. In any event, they should not start court proceedings less than 30 days from them providing any documents requested by you, whichever is the latter.

I am not sure if you have thoroughly read the Newbies thread or just skim-read it as you are asking questions that are fully explained there.

kaboo said:
We moved in June 2021, parking issue occurred on 01-Aug-2022, address was changed on 01-Sep-2022, we received Letter Before Claim on 26-Jan-2023. 

So, you didn't actually update your V5C until 15 months after your move. Anyway, irrelevant now as they do have your current address, no matter how they threaten to use the old one. You are where you are.

kaboo said:
...otherwise I will pay the claim to move on. Perhaps I want to leave some room to reduce the claim to the "discounted" amount that appears in the first PCN.

Really? So, you are quite happy to fund these scammers. I find that astounding, especially as you can see how this scam works.

99% of all the claims we see on here and are advised on are won or discontinued before they ever get to court. 1% lose, and do you know why? Because the victim of the scam didn't follow the advice given, didn't properly read the Newbies thread to understand the whole process or just gave in and paid in order to have an easy life without bothering to consider the fact that by doing so they are funding these scammers.

You can be a 1 percenter or a 99 percenter. Which one do you really want to be?