Advice pl. Keys stolen from unlocked house. Car on rd outside boundary stolen. Contents of car too

[Deleted User]

Don't tell the insurance company that your house was probably unlocked. Lock picking is not hard, and many locks can be bypassed in seconds with low skill attacks.

You don't know, so don't guess.

lazydave

Sea_Shell said:

What are your excesses?

That's potentially going to be two claims. One home and one car.

Notifiable to both insurers.

Might be more than that as there were keys to two cars on the keys that were taken.  The other car is on a separate policy.  I need to check if I have key cover on that, or with the RAC.  I've been working all day today so will be up the small hours again

The ones that cover the car that was taken and found, and the house with have claims opened

lazydave

Oh, and the contents excess is not much if it's away from home.  £100 I think.  The car is £300

lazydave

cymruchris said:

Just a little side question - are you the homeowner? or a tenant? How long have you lived where you are? And did you fit your own locks - or are they the ones when you tenanted or bought the property?

I am the home owner.  Been here about 9 years and no previous house claims on buildings or contents.  Only claim ever on the car was when someone up the road hit it while it was parked so that was on her policy not mine.  I have (had) about 15+ years no claims on the car policy. 

One set of locks was here when I arrived.  The french door locks were fitted when they were by the builders 

lazydave

in_my_wellies said:

My mothers car was stolen from her drive whilst she was loading her art boxes for her painting class. The keys were on the table in the porch. Mum bent over to pick up a box from the hall and became aware of someone behind her. She though it was the postman. He grabbed the keys a drove away with her car. 

At first the car insurance company refused to pay as 'she had left the car unlocked' but she went to a solicitor and eventually they paid up. 

The car was then used in a bank robbery and soon recovered. Rather stupid of the thieves to use a distinctive car for this purpose.

This is the bit for OP to read:
The police 'requested' her car for forensics (but she didn't have a choice) and informed her after three days that she could collect it. She was charged 3 days fee for it being in the police compound. They just said she had to pay and should claim on her insurance. Most annoying as there was no damage to the car so she would have had no claim otherwise
So, OP, get your car out ASAP

That is interesting thanks.  There was mention of storage fees by someone reading from a script but no mention of how much or how long.  It was collected on Friday so I guess they will charge me for the weekend even though they don't work weekends?!  Do you know how much they charged your mum?  Seems a bit cruel to be hitting victims of crime with legalised robbery on top!

lazydave

[Deleted User] said:

Don't tell the insurance company that your house was probably unlocked. Lock picking is not hard, and many locks can be bypassed in seconds with low skill attacks.

You don't know, so don't guess.

Thanks.  I do not know 100% that it was not locked.  I had to fill in via an app so my responses didn't make sense.  The car was locked so I said yes.  I said the same to the police that we do not know

lazydave

user1977 said:

Aretnap said:

user1977 said:

If you mean it was on the road immediately outside your house, I'm not sure that means your contents were really "away from your home" any more than they would be if the car was sitting on a driveway. I would interpret it as meaning taking the stuff away with you somewhere else, not them still being in the immediate environs of your house.

I think the items are either at your home or away from your home. I've never seen a policy which creates a third category of "sort of in the general vicinity of your home". It would be much more arguable that they were at home if the car was on a driveway.

If course if the car was on a driveway or otherwise "at home" the contents would still be covered - subject to any exclusions that apply to the theft from your home section. For example any cover limits for items in the garden would come into play.

It would help if the OP could let us see the rest of the policy.

It is possible that "at home" could be construed as meaning more than strictly within your title boundaries - after all, motor insurers distinguish between "parking on the street (at home)" and "parking on the street (somewhere completely different)".

And obviously the intention of such cover is to cover things you've taken with you while you're on an excursion away from home - not stuff you couldn't be bothered bringing in from the car after you get back, and then leave in a rather insecure manner.

Hi

All I have on personal possession is:
Under what is covered:  Personal possessions away from your property....personal possessions are covered in and away from the home in the United Kingdom, all year round, and anywhere else in the world for up to 60 days during the period of insurance.

and contents is:

Loss or damage to contents in your home (including in garages and outbuildings within the boundaries of your property).

The is no mention of unlocked anywhere and under what is not covered is the usual war, terrorism etc 

BUT

Under my obligations is "You must take reasonable care to protect your insured property and keep it in good condition and repair." which is where their argument will lie I guess

I can see this running for a while and ending up with the ombudsman

in_my_wellies

lazydave said:

in_my_wellies said:

My mothers car was stolen from her drive whilst she was loading her art boxes for her painting class. The keys were on the table in the porch. Mum bent over to pick up a box from the hall and became aware of someone behind her. She though it was the postman. He grabbed the keys a drove away with her car. 

At first the car insurance company refused to pay as 'she had left the car unlocked' but she went to a solicitor and eventually they paid up. 

The car was then used in a bank robbery and soon recovered. Rather stupid of the thieves to use a distinctive car for this purpose.

This is the bit for OP to read:
The police 'requested' her car for forensics (but she didn't have a choice) and informed her after three days that she could collect it. She was charged 3 days fee for it being in the police compound. They just said she had to pay and should claim on her insurance. Most annoying as there was no damage to the car so she would have had no claim otherwise
So, OP, get your car out ASAP

That is interesting thanks.  There was mention of storage fees by someone reading from a script but no mention of how much or how long.  It was collected on Friday so I guess they will charge me for the weekend even though they don't work weekends?!  Do you know how much they charged your mum?  Seems a bit cruel to be hitting victims of crime with legalised robbery on top!

I think it was £120 a day but it was about 8 years ago. It was the only claim she made in 60 years of driving. She was furious as she thought she was helping the police catch the bank robber 

Aretnap

lazydave said:

Under my obligations is "You must take reasonable care to protect your insured property and keep it in good condition and repair." which is where their argument will lie I guess

This is unlikely to be an issue. The catch-all "reasonable care" clause is included as standard, however it is rarely invoked. This is because the courts and the ombudsman, quite rightly, don't like insurance companies using such vaguely worded clauses to deny customers claims and so the level of stupidity that's required before they can be activated is very high.

Generally what's required is recklessness ie deliberate risk-taking - the insurance company has to prove that you knew, or must have known, that you were doing something unreasonably risky. A moment of forgetfulness or oversight like forgetting to lock a door one evening is not recklessness, which is why insurers have to include a specific clause about forced entry if they don't want to cover burglary from unlocked houses.

user1977

lazydave said:

user1977 said:

Aretnap said:

user1977 said:

If you mean it was on the road immediately outside your house, I'm not sure that means your contents were really "away from your home" any more than they would be if the car was sitting on a driveway. I would interpret it as meaning taking the stuff away with you somewhere else, not them still being in the immediate environs of your house.

I think the items are either at your home or away from your home. I've never seen a policy which creates a third category of "sort of in the general vicinity of your home". It would be much more arguable that they were at home if the car was on a driveway.

If course if the car was on a driveway or otherwise "at home" the contents would still be covered - subject to any exclusions that apply to the theft from your home section. For example any cover limits for items in the garden would come into play.

It would help if the OP could let us see the rest of the policy.

It is possible that "at home" could be construed as meaning more than strictly within your title boundaries - after all, motor insurers distinguish between "parking on the street (at home)" and "parking on the street (somewhere completely different)".

And obviously the intention of such cover is to cover things you've taken with you while you're on an excursion away from home - not stuff you couldn't be bothered bringing in from the car after you get back, and then leave in a rather insecure manner.

Hi

All I have on personal possession is:
Under what is covered:  Personal possessions away from your property....personal possessions are covered in and away from the home in the United Kingdom, all year round, and anywhere else in the world for up to 60 days during the period of insurance.

and contents is:

Loss or damage to contents in your home (including in garages and outbuildings within the boundaries of your property).

The is no mention of unlocked anywhere and under what is not covered is the usual war, terrorism etc 

BUT

Under my obligations is "You must take reasonable care to protect your insured property and keep it in good condition and repair." which is where their argument will lie I guess

I can see this running for a while and ending up with the ombudsman

Is the policy available online? It was really the full wording I was wanting to see.