CRA 2015 - Right To Reject - Questions

born_again

Car is missing standard maintenance parts listed on the chassis

So what are these parts?

visidigi

Tyre repair kit, tool kit, storage bags for equipment (£2-300)
Parts fitted that aren't original specification £250ish - but car was sold with full manufacturer warranty.

Normally I would not be rejecting the car for these reasons specifically - but having given the dealer pretty much a month to fix these - frankly rather easy problems to address, it became apparent the dealer had no interest in doing so quickly. Having spent a month since purchase chasing and getting no where the purchase has turned very much sour.

I bought from a franchise, not a back street dealer to avoid this exact hassle from happening.

powerful_Rogue

I'm a bit confused as you mention parts missing which should be there when you search on the chassis number. Did the retailer say these parts were included? That's the important bit. I can't see you can claim against what the car should have had when it was purchased new, when you've purchased as used.

visidigi

The parts are standard issue to all cars - they are a safety part and should be there (they are not wear and tear). The parts missing mean also serve a secondary purpose to store tools, some of which are missing, some of which were found rolling around in the car after delivery.

The dealer did actually replace these parts (albeit with the wrong ones) three days after they declined the rejection.

I base the needs of these parts on my local dealer from the same brand who informed me when asked if these parts were missing should I try to sell them the car they would take the cost off any valuation as they have to be there for them to sell it.

The rejection is more based on the condition of the car paintwork which directly conflicts with the 'if there are any cosmetic issues these will be fixed before delivery' declaration on the video upon which to base the purchase decision.

born_again

visidigi said:

Tyre repair kit, tool kit, storage bags for equipment (£2-300)
Parts fitted that aren't original specification £250ish - but car was sold with full manufacturer warranty.

Normally I would not be rejecting the car for these reasons specifically - but having given the dealer pretty much a month to fix these - frankly rather easy problems to address, it became apparent the dealer had no interest in doing so quickly. Having spent a month since purchase chasing and getting no where the purchase has turned very much sour.

I bought from a franchise, not a back street dealer to avoid this exact hassle from happening.

Ah so the bits most people take out when selling car.

What parts was not original spec?

Remember you are buying a 2nd hand car. They more often than not are missing bits & have non OEM parts from either servicing or previous owner replacing them.
It makes no difference with marque they are from.🤷‍♀️

You are also aware that ALL manufactures are struggling with parts supply. So stuff you mention above may not be something that is on the shelf, so has to be ordered.

I can see why the dealer is rejecting your rejection.

TBH, given you bought it at distance. You should have returned under the 14 days Distance selling.

visidigi

born_again said:

visidigi said:

Tyre repair kit, tool kit, storage bags for equipment (£2-300)
Parts fitted that aren't original specification £250ish - but car was sold with full manufacturer warranty.

Normally I would not be rejecting the car for these reasons specifically - but having given the dealer pretty much a month to fix these - frankly rather easy problems to address, it became apparent the dealer had no interest in doing so quickly. Having spent a month since purchase chasing and getting no where the purchase has turned very much sour.

I bought from a franchise, not a back street dealer to avoid this exact hassle from happening.

Ah so the bits most people take out when selling car.

What parts was not original spec?

Remember you are buying a 2nd hand car. They more often than not are missing bits & have non OEM parts from either servicing or previous owner replacing them.
It makes no difference with marque they are from.🤷‍♀️

You are also aware that ALL manufactures are struggling with parts supply. So stuff you mention above may not be something that is on the shelf, so has to be ordered.

I can see why the dealer is rejecting your rejection.

TBH, given you bought it at distance. You should have returned under the 14 days Distance selling.

The parts are available.

The marque is important as the used car programmes of each differs and this one clearly state the warranty does not apply if non original parts are fitted. This vehicle is under the original manufacturers warranty - so non OEM parts = not covered.

If a car is bought in by a franchise dealer and it isnt to spec then they can still sell it, but not as an approved used, just as a 'select' used car.

And I am not primarily rejecting under the parts situation - there are three paint damaged panels as per previous posts.

Yes I should have rejected under 14 days, but I was told by the dealer the would sort. I in fact tried to cancel in 14 days and they said they would sort (that was the second time I got a response from them in 14 days - they ignored 5 of the attempts I made to have them resolve prior to this.

The dealer told me they would sort. Twice.

So this, in my view changes the rejection angle somewhat as its clear now that the dealer has no intention of fixing the situation but just wanted to delay delay delay.

The situation as it sits is what they advertised (in the video it was said 'excellent condition and any cosmetic issues will be fixed') isn't what I got.

The parts are secondary and the absolutely shambolic customer experience is third.

Manxman_in_exile

visidigi said:...

The rejection is more based on the condition of the car paintwork which directly conflicts with the 'if there are any cosmetic issues these will be fixed before delivery' declaration on the video upon which to base the purchase decision.

What have they done to fix the paintwork then?  You said it's down to bare metal in a few places and the primer in others.

If they clearly told you that "any cosmetic issues will be fixed before delivery" then I'd have thought you should be arguing on that basis and should have rejected it as not conforming to contract.  (ie the paintwork hadn't been put right as they'd promised.  If that had been promised).

The missing tools I'm not so sure about.  I think @born_again may have a point if suggesting that not all second-hand cars still have a complete tool kit.  I'm not sure I'd expect a second-hand car to have all that still intact, and I'd make a point of asking.  I think that depends very much on what questions you asked and what answers you were given before deciding to buy.

Assuming you are still within the paused 30 day window for the short-term right to reject on the basis of the paintwork alone, what concerns me a bit is if you continued using the car after you told them you were rejecting it.  (Sorry - I'm still unclear on the timeline, what you actually told the dealer when you told them you were rejecting it, and how much you continued to drive it after that.  You should have stopped using it then)

If this is an authorised dealer is it worthwhile complaining to the manufacturer?  Can you ask them to confirm if they would continue to honour their warranty?

visidigi

Manxman_in_exile said:

visidigi said:...

The rejection is more based on the condition of the car paintwork which directly conflicts with the 'if there are any cosmetic issues these will be fixed before delivery' declaration on the video upon which to base the purchase decision.

What have they done to fix the paintwork then?  You said it's down to bare metal in a few places and the primer in others.

If they clearly told you that "any cosmetic issues will be fixed before delivery" then I'd have thought you should be arguing on that basis and should have rejected it as not conforming to contract.  (ie the paintwork hadn't been put right as they'd promised.  If that had been promised).

The missing tools I'm not so sure about.  I think @born_again may have a point if suggesting that not all second-hand cars still have a complete tool kit.  I'm not sure I'd expect a second-hand car to have all that still intact, and I'd make a point of asking.  I think that depends very much on what questions you asked and what answers you were given before deciding to buy.

Assuming you are still within the paused 30 day window for the short-term right to reject on the basis of the paintwork alone, what concerns me a bit is if you continued using the car after you told them you were rejecting it.  (Sorry - I'm still unclear on the timeline, what you actually told the dealer when you told them you were rejecting it, and how much you continued to drive it after that.  You should have stopped using it then)

If this is an authorised dealer is it worthwhile complaining to the manufacturer?  Can you ask them to confirm if they would continue to honour their warranty?

I informed the dealer that if he wanted to avoid the first rejection I would give him the time on the understanding I would go back to using it.

The dealer replied to me once in the first 14 days despite bi-daily chasers. I even said I feel you aren't replying because you know I can do a return within 14 days. The reaction/action to everything has been delay delay delay.

I wouldn't reject on the tools/kit alone - its more a secondary factor as made clear in the earlier posts.

They have offered to organised someone to come to my drive and fix the paint on day 24. but they didn't get round to instructing them to even book in with me till day 29. Everything has been done to avoid getting things done.

I know my local dealer well as this is the 7th of this brand I have bought (last two remote delivery, the first was from the same franchise as my local and issues with that one were booked, fixed and settled in 72hrs of delivery - this one didn't sort anything in 30 days.

Unfortunately the local dealer didn't have stock. 

Complaint went into the manufacture on Monday gone, they indicate they can't help as its a contract between myself and the franchise dealer. Its an absolute joke to be honest - this is not a £1 toy car, nor is it an old used demo - its 13 months old and sold 'in excellent condition;

Manxman_in_exile

I'm sorry but I still don't understand where you are on the 30 day short term right to reject.  You say you've given him time to sort out the problem (tools or paintwork or both?) before you exercise the right to reject but then you also talk about reaching day 24 and day 29.

My understanding of the short term right to reject might be completely wrong - and if it is I'm sure others will correct me, but...

First, you say: "I informed the dealer that if he wanted to avoid the first rejection I would give him the time on the understanding I would go back to using it."

Are you aware that s22(1) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk) says:

Time limit for short-term right to reject

(1)  A consumer who has the short-term right to reject loses it if the time limit for exercising it passes without the consumer exercising it, unless the trader and the consumer agree that it may be exercised later" [my bold]

Are you saying that you have agreed with the dealer that the 30 day time limit be extended? 

Second, ss22(6), (7) and (8) say:

(6)  If the consumer requests or agrees to the repair or replacement of goods, the period mentioned in subsection (3) or (4) stops running for the length of the waiting period.

(7)  If goods supplied by the trader in response to that request or agreement do not conform to the contract, the time limit for exercising the short-term right to reject is then either—

(a) 7 days after the waiting period ends, or

(b) if later, the original time limit for exercising that right, extended by the waiting period.

(8) The waiting period—

(a) begins with the day the consumer requests or agrees to the repair or replacement of the goods, and

(b) ends with the day on which the consumer receives goods supplied by the trader in response to the request or agreement.

So are you still in the waiting period?  The dealer may not appreciate this, but my understanding is that if you request a repair or a replacement within 30 days, then the 30 day clock stops ticking until you get the repaired or replaced item back - then it starts again.  So if you've asked for the paintwork to be repaired, the clock stops ticking and it doesn't matter how long the dealer delays, as the short term 30 day window can't expire while he's delaying

At least that's my understanding.  If I'm mistaken I'm sure others will point it out.

So only you know if you are still within the short-term rejection window or not because only you know the relevant dates.

visidigi

I wasn't aware that the clock stops when I reject. I am over 30 calendar days since the car was delivered. (36 to be exact). I have given them plenty of time to fix everything - I didn't have to let them fix/repair/resolve anything but they kept saying the would sort.

Day 1 - I reported the problems (there are others outside of the two I've mentioned).
Day 3 - The missing equipment was only noticed when I got time to find out where the locking wheel nut as it was in the center console on delivery - asking on a forum confirmed what I should have in the car. Its missing.
Day 4 - Car wasn't washed/hardly driven while waiting for confirmation on what the dealer did before delivery (prep/service etc) as the car was filthy inside and out when it turned up.
Day 9 - confirmation given.
Day 10 - paid for detail. Paint damage found and reported (at first rinse a touch up job came clean off the car)
Day 16 - no response/resolution from dealer in all this time - Rejected car.
Day 19 - dealer 'head' called to see what they could do, said you have till I run out of time to reject to address it, sort it out we're all good and we get on with life. 
Day 29 (ironically the 29th of Jan) - zero changed. Rejected a second time, dealer rejects, I escalate to manufacturer - that was 7 days ago, I will chase manufacturer tomorrow as I haven't heard from the person handling the case.

As far as I am concerned its rejected, but its still on my drive like a quite expensive ornament and hasn't been driven in two weeks now.

My initial question was all about what options I have if the dealer refuses the rejection, which they have.

I've stupidly missed the S75 limit so that's out - that leaves a motor ombudsman or MCO - the latter is £1,500+ to do.

It seems really tilted in the retailers favour if they can say 'it met out standards, I don't accept your rejection'