Party wall tree help

funkyfifi

Doozergirl said:

funkyfifi said:

Doozergirl said:

jonnydeppiwish! said:

funkyfifi said:

jonnydeppiwish! said:

YoungBlueEyes said:

This is where I'll show my ignorance but - shouldn't you get to say yay or nay if someone wants to do something within your boundary?  The foundations will come under your boundary and it'll cost you the holly... surely they can't just tell you to suck it up because they want an extension...?!

The foundations can come up to your boundary, not necessarily the actually wall. That will be have to be instepped.

Op, looking the pictures, I’m afraid you tree may not survive considering the roots that the neighbours can remove.

Just out of interest, how have they got permitted development for both the loft conversion and a 6m extension?

I don't think it's a case that they "got" permitted development..... Just the sizes apparently fall under it. 

There’s still a process for permitted development.

Op they cannot put any foundations on your ground, they will have to build in from the border.

They can if the OP agrees.   From a party wall perspective it's an awful lot more practical to continue the party wall in attached houses and let it straddle the boundary.  I will always advocate this - the houses are already attached afterall! 

In future, when someone extends the OP's house, there will be a wall to attach to already and a much more structurally sound arrangement with no awkward gaps between houses.  And bigger extensions for both.  

If the first extension is built away from the boundary, it tends to be the second to extend that misses out on space because they're trying to maintain a safe and practical gap for maintenance and damp prevention.  

Thing is, it'll make no difference if the foundations are or aren't in my bit.... The tree would still likely die from the excavation, so it's not really that that bothers me particularly..... 
I guess I'll have to see what the surveyors say on Tuesday, but at the very least I guess I'd like a tree survey to see if it can be resited or in someway saved....
People probably think I'm overreacting and I've tried to think about just letting it go for an easy life..... But I can't.... It just makes me desperately sad
And its more that because we had to insist over and over for a party wall agreement, they were probably just going to wait until I was at work one day and chop it down 

I think you're right that the tree would likely die, so it's important to be pragmatic about the building and what benefits your house the most when it is built - that would be a party wall, imo.  

If we're looking at this bluntly, you plant something by the boundary and it becomes a potential nuisance to your neighbours and collateral damage when building projects commence.  This isn't really their fault.  They would always be entitled to cut back any foliage or roots growing over the boundary - that's not in contention here, so they can go ahead and build foundations to the boundary and if the tree dies, it dies.  You never had the entitlement to use their land to support the tree.  

The depth of their foundations has nothing to do with planning permissions.  They will be what they need to be upon inspection. 

There would not be a tree survey carried out for one holly bush in a standard planning application.  They are not a protected species. 

I think this is for you to be working out what to do with the tree before it is too late, not them, because if you start to appear unreasonable with requests for surveys to protect a tree that should not be on their side, they can cut back their side immediately if they want to and that is their problem solved. 

I know you are emotionally attached to it, and I get it, but it's a bit unfair for you to put this on your neighbours as being the problem on this specific issue.  

OK, I totally hear what you're saying xxx thank you for putting it in this direct way as I do understand... I don't give a sh*t about the fact that a party wall would benefit the housebas this is my forever home now and I'm not ever moving and don't care that the foundations will be on my side....its more about the things that are important. they've shown a blatant disregard to anything I've said or asked them and now my mums stuff and my childhood stuff in the attic are covered in moisture and brick dust since they broke through the party wall up there after we'd literally just boarded it out and made it secure.... I've spent 2 weeks worrying my chimney stack was going to crash through the ceiling 
I think that it's the general lack of disregard for anything that has made me really angry and escalated the situation... The tree is still involved surely in a PW notice and they repeatedly told me that nothing they were building needed one....which was gaslighting
It's important to me and I'll see what they say on Tuesday.... 
I didn't plant it here, its just here and has been since I was a kid. I know I'm emotionally involved, but actually I'm allowed to be & I do think they've made it so much worse by the way they've behaved honestly.
I really appreciate your replies xxx it is helpful 

ThisIsWeird

I trust they did actually sort out and clean the mess they made in your attic?

funkyfifi

ThisIsWeird said:

I trust they did actually sort out and clean the mess they made in your attic?

No, it's all ongoing and as there was no party wall it doesn't apply  right now sadly
For clarity. Mum and my collection of old toys was a sun newspaper article, the main thing was to protect that stuff, hence boarding out the attic before I even moved here xx

funkyfifi

ThisIsWeird said:

I trust they did actually sort out and clean the mess they made in your attic?

Mum and I spent years collecting.... It was our thing 

funkyfifi

To have this stuff all needing cleaning and checking feels horrid..... Its 20 years of collecting and every single thing has a memory 

ThisIsWeird

funkyfifi said:

ThisIsWeird said:

I trust they did actually sort out and clean the mess they made in your attic?

No, it's all ongoing and as there was no party wall it doesn't apply  right now sadly.

A PWA agreement is not required, for either this or even if they brought your whole roof down. You are covered. You are protected. They are responsible. They are liable. You 'simply' need to make a claim.

A PWA agreement - employing a surveyor, especially a second one to represent your side specifically - is really only needed if there's a good 'reason', such as a complex build that could involve/intrude on your property in tricky technical ways, or - sadly - if you suspect the neighbour is a chancer, or tends to employ cowboys.

For the loft conversion, if they crack or damage your party wall - cause any damage - you inform the builder and ask them to make it all good. If the damage is significant, you inform your insurance company - they should have words. If you have Legal Protection included in your policy (and you should), then you call them right away, and they'll guide you.

None of this is confrontation. It is simply asking for your rights to be addressed.

Have they completed the building work on their loft? And in what way is the 'mess' issue ongoing? 

ThisIsWeird

funkyfifi said:

To have this stuff all needing cleaning and checking feels horrid..... Its 20 years of collecting and every single thing has a memory 

It could well be horrid, or possibly be therapeutic, even cathartic, I don't know. 

But if you didn't want to do this cleaning yourself, it should be quite possible to employ a pro, and then hand the neighbour the bill.

funkyfifi

ThisIsWeird said:

funkyfifi said:

ThisIsWeird said:

I trust they did actually sort out and clean the mess they made in your attic?

No, it's all ongoing and as there was no party wall it doesn't apply  right now sadly.

A PWA agreement is not required, for either this or even if they brought your whole roof down. You are covered. You are protected. They are responsible. They are liable. You 'simply' need to make a claim.

A PWA agreement - employing a surveyor, especially a second one to represent your side specifically - is really only needed if there's a good 'reason', such as a complex build that could involve/intrude on your property in tricky technical ways, or - sadly - if you suspect the neighbour is a chancer, or tends to employ cowboys.

For the loft conversion, if they crack or damage your party wall - cause any damage - you inform the builder and ask them to make it all good. If the damage is significant, you inform your insurance company - they should have words. If you have Legal Protection included in your policy (and you should), then you call them right away, and they'll guide you.

None of this is confrontation. It is simy asking for your rights to be addressed.

Have they completed the building work on their loft? And in what way is the 'mess' issue ongoing? 

Thanks for this 
We've got a second one for a number of reasons, but mainly because they turned up unannounced with their structural engineer who tried on numerous occasions to tell me that a party wall agreement didn't apply to ANY of the building work. There is literally no trust at all now. Their professionals seem to be just mates. 
The builders attacked the chimney breast at the back of mine with an electric breaker, which cracked my newly plastered wall. They're also planning to remove almost every single internal wall downstairs & I just want maximum reassurance I suppose
They've not finished the loft conversion yet no xx

ThisIsWeird

Clearly you did the right thing asking for a second PWA surveyor to look after your interests this time.

Explain to the surveyor - in succinct factual terms (and, please, no 'over-egging' or 'emotive' stuff because that can often count against you*) - what was said by them and their surveyor, and what they have done, and the result to your house.

*You want the practical 'facts' of the situation to stand by themselves. It doesn't - shouldn't - really 'matter' to them how it affects you, or whether it's better or worse than anyone else; that isn't their 'professional' concern. Eg, dust on your stored items is just that - 'dust on stored items'. It shouldn't be a consideration for them that they are more precious to you than items belonging to someone else.

Good luck with all this moving on.

funkyfifi

Thanks to you all for your advice and kind words..... 
Thought I'd just pop in and update with this
I met with both my and their party wall surveyors today and it went better than I expected really. 
The neighbours will use eccentric foundations so that it minimises risk and the tree will stay where it is. Foundations will be hand dug around the tree. 
Obviously it'll take a fair few knocks and it's not zero risk by any means, but it gives it a chance at least. 
Just got to cross my fingers that they're as Hardy as people say xxx
And if not, they're liable and have to replace it xxxx