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CCJ from 2016 fine

1246

Comments

  • B789 said:
    Ah, OK. Has the original claim been re-issued or are you relying on old PoC? The defence I linked to is for claims from the likes of DCB Legal that have woefully inadequate PoCs.
    From my understanding it's been reissued.

    The judge worded it as 'effectively reset the clock' on the original claim. I received the letter from the court today. I was greatly hoping for more information from them but it literally says 'The CCJ is set aside. The defence is due on XXXX date.'

    May as well have said, 'it was nice to meet you' just to pad it out a bit
  • B789
    B789 Posts: 3,441 Forumite
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    If they have not actually re-issued the claim with new PoC then you are defending against the original claim which the whole defence is valid.
  • B789 said:
    If they have not actually re-issued the claim with new PoC then you are defending against the original claim which the whole defence is valid.
    I guessed as much

    In your opinion would you add more? I feel like a uni student padding out a dissertation
  • 1505grandad
    1505grandad Posts: 4,008 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    "It is admitted that on the material date the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question"

    If you are admitting being driver you cannot use para 4 re PoFA
  • B789
    B789 Posts: 3,441 Forumite
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    Leave paras #8 and #9 as they are. You may want to adjust your para #3 as you are simply defending against the PoC. There is no mention in the PoC of why the PCN was issued, only mentions that the driver/keeper (which???) breached their terms and conditions. They don't even say which terms were breached.

    Something along the lines of :
    3. It is possible that the driver used the car park mentioned in the embarrassingly inadequate Particulars of Claim (PoC) from this serial litigator. However, as it was on an unremarkable day almost six years ago, it is impossible to be sure as the Claimant never affixed a Notice to Driver (NtD) to the car and a Parking Charge Notice (PCN)  was never received as the Claimant did not send one to the Defendants correct address. The original claim was incorrectly served to the wrong address and so the Defendant has never had any communication about the alleged breach of contract and had no reason to keep the original ticket or receipt from almost six years ago.

    I'm pretty sure one of the more experienced regulars will correct or improve the above advice.

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 155,731 Forumite
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    edited 7 June 2023 at 10:56PM
    Did they supply a bundle of evidence before your CCJ hearing that sheds any light on it?

    If so, then you can't say you "don't know what it is all about" and should instead add wording to meaningfully defend the allegations in their WS they sent re the CCJ case.  That's their case.

    If they did not, and you really are in the dark, why didn't you say that at the hearing and ask the Judge to kindly order that the Claimant be required to file and serve "full and detailed particulars" including photographs and evidence, BEFORE  your date to defend?

    It's too late to ask for that now.
    Best you could do now - IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING FROM THE CLAIMANT - is cover that in your covering email to the local court and solicitors and say that you ask the Judge to order full and detailed particulars and then allow you time to amend your defence fee-free. The attached defence you've had to do 'blind' having not seen a single sheet of paper or photo to adequately evidence the claim or support any allegation of breach'.  Breach of what? Nothing tells you anything about the allegations you are expected to respond to, so the attached defence is the best you can do until you see more detail.


    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • The first I saw any of the evidence was when the defence bundle was sent to myself and the court. No picture of an affixed ticket and no proof of non payment. Plenty of pictures of parking metres and signs of price points and a copy of Ts and C's all dated 2 years after the fact.

    Thanks for your rewrite @B789
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 155,731 Forumite
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    edited 8 June 2023 at 9:04PM
    OK - it wasn't a 'defence' bundle though, because at all times you remain the Defendant.

    But what I'm saying is you CAN'T use a vague defence and those extra paragraphs 5-11 saying that "the POC are sparse" because you've seen their WS and evidence before your CCJ set aside hearing.

    You've seen their hand!

    Go through their WS and highlight the allegations and and holes you can pick in their evidence and respond to that in your defence.  

    I am not saying you can't adapt the Template Defence; you can.  Our template defence DOESN'T include the "sparse POC" paragraphs so it is suitable for you.

    I am also not saying you can't say it was an "unremarkable say seven years ago"; you can.

    But despite that, you've seen what they are accusing the driver of and you've seen all their useless 'evidence'.

    You know how long they are saying the car was there.  We don't...if it was only a few minutes, there may be scope for an argument re 'no grace period' or - if the car was there longer - an argument re: 'no evidence that the machine was working'.

    Go through their bundle in detail.

    You need to respond to their case because you know exactly what they are alleging, whether you were driving or not, AND you know if they are relying on keeper liability under the PoFA or not, because their WS will say so.

    You know much more than most Defendants.
    Should make it easier to defend. 
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • I've put together a defence using the template going though the witness statement and hitting as many points as possible. I've tried to avoid hitting the same points repeatedly.

    I'll look at it with fresh eyes over the next couple of days as I've got a few days to submit it.

    In the meantime I just wanted to thank anyone and everyone who was willing to help. This is a scary project, and sure as hell one I would not have taken on willingly. All being well, honesty and common sense will prevail 
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 155,731 Forumite
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    Show us your draft before you submit it to the local court (NOT THE CCBC) and solicitors by email.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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