Need new boiler - options confusing 31 January at 6:18PM in Energy 21 replies 723 views

Brie

sammyjammy said:

Lorian said:

Is it possible to fit catflaps?

Possible yes, desirable no, maybe should get rid of the cats!

We've had a similar problem in heating an inadequately insulated house with a duff boiler so I was interested to read what was suggested.  I think the person who mentioned warming up the structure of the house is right about that being part of the difficulty - our place wasn't getting much above 13c with heating on from 6 am to 10 pm but did immensely better when the heat was on continuously.  The thermostats will turn the heat off when it gets to 18c but then will kick in again when it drops so we're less likely to need little electric fan heaters in various rooms.  I've also taken more care in closing the door to the kitchen as that's by far the coldest room in the house.  And closing doors that block radiators - with the door open it's only the door that seems to get the benefit.

As for the cats.....could you teach them how to open doors?  Some cats can and that at least would let you heat some areas more efficiently.  And rather than get rid, why not get more?  The more cats, the more heat generated and you can use them as a live duvet for when you're sitting watching tv etc.     

EssexHebridean

Sounds like you'd benefit hugely from some hunting out draughts and blocking them too - where air can get in, heat can get out - and that is such a small differential between indoor & outdoor temperatures that sounds like a significant issue. 

sammyjammy

Brie said:

sammyjammy said:

Lorian said:

Is it possible to fit catflaps?

Possible yes, desirable no, maybe should get rid of the cats!

We've had a similar problem in heating an inadequately insulated house with a duff boiler so I was interested to read what was suggested.  I think the person who mentioned warming up the structure of the house is right about that being part of the difficulty - our place wasn't getting much above 13c with heating on from 6 am to 10 pm but did immensely better when the heat was on continuously.  The thermostats will turn the heat off when it gets to 18c but then will kick in again when it drops so we're less likely to need little electric fan heaters in various rooms.  I've also taken more care in closing the door to the kitchen as that's by far the coldest room in the house.  And closing doors that block radiators - with the door open it's only the door that seems to get the benefit.

As for the cats.....could you teach them how to open doors?  Some cats can and that at least would let you heat some areas more efficiently.  And rather than get rid, why not get more?  The more cats, the more heat generated and you can use them as a live duvet for when you're sitting watching tv etc.     

Ah bless you Brie, I love the idea of more cats, I'll have to be stricter and limit their ability to wander around at will.  Its so hard, I love old houses but they aren't much fun when its like this, I need to start thinking outside the box with what I can do to make things better.

macman

Energy costs are not going back to 'normal' any time soon (whatever 'normal' is). The most we can hope for is no further rises, and maybe a slight reduction if more supply can be obtained in the UK. Please don't forget that prices now are heavily subsidised, and that cannot continue forever. 
If you delay your upgrade and insulation until then, you'll wait forever. Surely now is the time to invest in insulation and more efficient heating, as it is at it's most cost-effective when prices are high?.

BUFF

Do you know if your neighbours are heating their houses?
I found that my Edwardian mid-terrace settles ~11-12C if I turn my heating off for several average days at this time of year, presumably from heat transfer via party walls.
Similar to you, my kitchen has a solid floor & overnight is the coldest room in the house (it also has 2 external walls) but does benefit from solar gain during the day.

By not heating your house at all you may be causing hidden damage (interstitial condensation).

If you have the budget I would review your heating system from scratch* especially if your radiators are as old as your boiler.
The rad sizes/styles will have been chosen based on a higher design flow temp than is now the norm for efficient running of a condensing boiler. 
Your old rads will need at least some form of flush for the boiler warranty.

How long do you intend to be in this property? Looking forward, the next replacement cycle (15 years?) is likely to be a heat pump & involve stored hot water (a tank) so if you are going to be replacing rads then it makes sense to consider suitability for that (& also pipe sizes) .

If you can afford it I agree with macman that now is a good time to invest in insulation & efficient heating. With higher prices the no. of years for improvements to break even or move into profit reduces. & as you get older you are only going to feel cold even more.

* don't forget modern controls in this - they can make a significant difference to consumption

FreeBear

Brie said: As for the cats.....could you teach them how to open doors?  Some cats can and that at least would let you heat some areas more efficiently.  And rather than get rid, why not get more?  The more cats, the more heat generated and you can use them as a live duvet for when you're sitting watching tv etc.     

https://c60design.co.uk/many-cats-take-heat-passive-house/

If you wish to substitute cats for other animals, the Engineering Toolbox has a formula for calculating the heat output - https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/animals-heat-emissions-d_1578.html

markin

macman said:

Energy costs are not going back to 'normal' any time soon (whatever 'normal' is). The most we can hope for is no further rises, and maybe a slight reduction if more supply can be obtained in the UK. Please don't forget that prices now are heavily subsidised, and that cannot continue forever. 
If you delay your upgrade and insulation until then, you'll wait forever. Surely now is the time to invest in insulation and more efficient heating, as it is at it's most cost-effective when prices are high?.

Latest projection is £55MWH by 2025.

We are talking about someone that instead of setting at budget of say £6-8, That would give 3 or 4 hrs a day went all #Hertslad 

But replacing the boiler is still the fastest payback, even if prices drop in 2 years.

sammyjammy

macman said:

Energy costs are not going back to 'normal' any time soon (whatever 'normal' is). The most we can hope for is no further rises, and maybe a slight reduction if more supply can be obtained in the UK. Please don't forget that prices now are heavily subsidised, and that cannot continue forever. 
If you delay your upgrade and insulation until then, you'll wait forever. Surely now is the time to invest in insulation and more efficient heating, as it is at it's most cost-effective when prices are high?.

Thanks, I realise that, it was more hope than expectation and I am not putting off the upgrades.  Should have saved up enough for the boiler by summer and will take it from there.

Dolor

sammyjammy said:

macman said:

Energy costs are not going back to 'normal' any time soon (whatever 'normal' is). The most we can hope for is no further rises, and maybe a slight reduction if more supply can be obtained in the UK. Please don't forget that prices now are heavily subsidised, and that cannot continue forever. 
If you delay your upgrade and insulation until then, you'll wait forever. Surely now is the time to invest in insulation and more efficient heating, as it is at it's most cost-effective when prices are high?.

Thanks, I realise that, it was more hope than expectation and I am not putting off the upgrades.  Should have saved up enough for the boiler by ummer and will take it from there.

As I said previously, it is not just the boiler. You need to factor in radiator upgrades and a power flush if you are to get maximum efficiency out of a condensing boiler. Many ‘heat geeks’ post that very few boilers in the UK are actually operated in a condensing mode. Consumers wrongly assume that a large plume of vapour on a frosty morning is a sign of boiler condensing.

On a properly sized heating system, the boiler return flow temperature must be below 56c. The lower the temperature, the higher the boiler efficiency. I run my system boiler at flow temperature of 55C.

sammyjammy

Thanks again @Dolor, all I was saying is boiler is priority but will look at radiators in conjunction with the plumber when I get there, I had a repair to my boiler and a radiator reconnected a few months back and I believe they power flushed the system then.