How would I go about getting a pay as you go electricity meter replaced with a normal billed meter? 30 January at 11:04PM in Energy 71 replies 1.8K views

Alnat1

The longer people hold out on getting smart meters fitted, the longer the campaign to get them fitted goes on, the more it costs EVERYONE whether they have a smart meter already or not.

Once everyone has them, the adverts stop, the "pushing" stops and we ALL stop paying for them.

Dolor

diystarter7 said:

EssexHebridean said:

Scorpio33 said:

I don't (and never will want a SM). 

My reasoning is:

- There is currently no advantage to me as a consumer apart from not having to put in meter readings each month (which takes less than 10 mins)
- It provides information on when I use energy which will enable energy companies to bill more for peak times. Or conversely, less for off-peak times - meaning load shifting could save money. More expensive peak rate electricity is coming for everyone IMO - the difference for those with a SM is that they will be able to benefit from the tariffs that allow them to then choose to use appliances etc at cheaper times. There is already a precedent being set elsewhere that no smart meter = increased costs.
- The data that flows to the energy company isn't controlled by me, meaning it could be interecepted, altered, or used to find out when I use energy and so when I will be home (in theory). Do you use a mobile phone? wifi? contactless or chip & pin bank card? 
- There is no evidence that having a smart meter leads to lower energy use. Personally, just because something tells me what I am using won't lead to me reducing usage - I will still want to watch TV and have a cup of tea. The Smart Meter will do nothing to reduce energy use - but the IHD that generally comes along with the smart meter can as it helps people to identify the high use items. (Clue - your kettle is one, the TV most likely not so much).  
- Smart meters give a lot more control to power companies.Oh yes - "control" that one gets trotted out a lot - you're not called Susan are you? Keen reader of the Daily Fail? Convinced that everything the BBC says is the gospel truth? No? OK - just checking.  First generation meant you couldn't swap supplier easily But those are no longer being installed? And in any event, there was never an issue with swaping supplier with a SMETS1 meter that I'm aware of? It just meant that people had to go back to the position they were in prior to having the SMETS1 - namely giving regular meter readings., second generation can easily be changed to pay as you go meters by the power companies (even without consent). The trick to avoiding this is to pay your bills, or, if you are struggling to pay your bills, to speak with the energy supplier.  If you don't pay, and don't engage, then they can change you to PAYG with OR without a smart meter - the "without" just tends to be a bit messier and may involve some damage...
- If there is an issue with the meter readings, I have no way of rectifying this - I will be at the mercy of energy companies who will insist everything is working ok (even if it is an issue with the meter or at thier end). We've seen threads here that suggest this is not true. 

Can someone give me any tangiable advantages that benefit me?

The best advantage in the long term that having a smart meter will have for you is that it will almost certainly end up saving you money due to favourable tariffs that you will be unable to access without one. Whether that is a benefit to you or not, only you can decide! 

Highlighted bit, for how long?
Is this why suppliers are pushing, pushing hard so hard for these meters that people like me and others complain for them not being open and honest?

Do not forget, these smart meter providers/suppliers are a business and I have yet to meet a good business man that pays a lot of money to get things changed when there is no reason to and then offer a better deal

Thank you.

The rollout of smart meters is a Government initiative managed by a Senior Responsible Officer who is a senior civil servant within BEIS. Suppliers, under direction from Ofgem, are required to meet a set rollout target depending on their customer numbers. Failure results in fines. The cost of the smart meter rollout was assessed in 2019 to be £12.6Bn with overall savings going forward of c.£20Bn.

Smart meters are being rolled out across the World because we have to use energy in a smarter way than we have done in the past. Renewable energy is by is very nature - uncertain. For example, at the moment, the sun is shining; the wind is blowing and our electricity is coming from the following sources:

You will note that over 50% is coming from renewables with 5.72% from gas. On a cold foggy night, over 50% of our electricity may be coming from gas. Demand-led tariffs which require smart meters can smooth out the peaks and troughs of renewable supply by encouraging consumers to use energy when it is plentiful. 

Why would someone pay 50p/kWh to wash their dishes at 5pm when if they waited for 3 hours it would only cost only 30p/kWh? The consumer benefits from the lower price and the Grid benefits from lower demand at a peak period. 

You can sit at home thinking that there is some Machiavellian plot going on here. In truth, no one is being dishonest. I note that you are happy to post on this site: 20 years ago, you would probably have been writing letters or sending texts. This month, the BBC is turning off all standard definition programmes. Mobile operators are turning off 2 and 3G bands. As I post, two areas are being switched to 100% H2 gas supply. Consumers in those areas being given a choice: agree to the change or switch to all electric.

All the above is called progress. By 2030, consumers will struggle to remember what an analogue meter looks like.

Gerry1

EssexHebridean said:

ultimately, the alternative is to “encourage” them by making it more expensive to use energy at those times.

Which I've been saying for yonks, usually being met with a volley of abuse (but not from you).

Welcome to Surge Pricing.  Coming soon to a smart meter near you.

MikeyPGT

Change to Scottish Power - chances are they will never get round to fitting your smart meter or, if they do, then it won't work!

EssexHebridean

Gerry1 said:

EssexHebridean said:

ultimately, the alternative is to “encourage” them by making it more expensive to use energy at those times.

Which I've been saying for yonks, usually being met with a volley of abuse (but not from you).

Welcome to Surge Pricing.  Coming soon to a smart meter near you.

...but then those with smart metering will have access to tariffs that mean they know when it is cheaper to use energy. It is starting to seem likely that the "peak" rate on a smart meter tariff may well end up being the 24/7 rate for most dumb meter users, others than perhaps those in specific circumstances? (Along with, very possibly, a higher standing charge too)

We are in a position where we would definitely save money if we had metered water. Our water company came out and surveyed, but because of the location of our incoming main, and the limited section of that main that is "ours" before the water feeds the flats upstairs, they were unable to fit a WM. As a result - and because this was verified by the engineer who attended, we are now on an assessed bill. I could see something broadly similar being rolled out in the future for those where for whatever reason fitting a smart electricity or gas meter is not possible - obviously not a straight charge but probably some form of modified tariff. I can't see those who are simply refusing because they are concerned about being "controlled" getting those benefits though. 

macman

Gerry1 said:

EssexHebridean said:

ultimately, the alternative is to “encourage” them by making it more expensive to use energy at those times.

Which I've been saying for yonks, usually being met with a volley of abuse (but not from you).

Welcome to Surge Pricing.  Coming soon to a smart meter near you.

It's not 'surge pricing'. It's 'surge and dip'. Just like E7 has been for decades, but with more than one surge and dip per day.

Dolor

macman said:

Gerry1 said:

EssexHebridean said:

ultimately, the alternative is to “encourage” them by making it more expensive to use energy at those times.

Which I've been saying for yonks, usually being met with a volley of abuse (but not from you).

Welcome to Surge Pricing.  Coming soon to a smart meter near you.

It's not 'surge pricing'. It's 'surge and dip'. Just like E7 has been for decades, but with more than one surge and dip per day.

Exactly that. Octopus Agile Incoming prices are based on 30minute wholesale costs which suppliers have no control over.

macman

diystarter7 said:

macman said:

Those on smart meters will have access to TOU tariffs, so rates will vary by the half hour. No different to E7, but much more flexible and sophisticated. 
If you had a water meter fitted from the day you moved into the property, then how do you know you are paying 'much more' compared to RV biling, since you will have never paid an RV bill at that property? 

Simple answer, same family composition, same number of baths/showers, using the washing machine, flushing the loo, hours spend at home  - we moved within the same water supplier area - does that help?

No, it doesn't help. Because if you have never had an RV bill at the new property, you can't compare it to a metered bill. Comparing it to RV billing at the old property is irrelevant, unless the RV of both properties was identical.
What you are actually saying is 'we pay more at the new property', and then assuming that is because it's metered. Without considering that, if it was still on RV billing, you might still be paying more, because the RV is higher.

Qyburn

diystarter7 said:

I recall diesel cars being bigged up our honest government.

Do you mind me asking, which government and in what exact way?

I've seen a similar point made a few times, but nobody so far has been able to quote exactly what form that encouragement or "bigging" took. There's never been a tax or duty incentive for example. Nor for that matter an increase in duty once Diesel use increased. I can't really see a government conspiracy either way.

The_Green_Hornet

Qyburn said:

diystarter7 said:

I recall diesel cars being bigged up our honest government.

Do you mind me asking, which government and in what exact way?

I've seen a similar point made a few times, but nobody so far has been able to quote exactly what form that encouragement or "bigging" took. There's never been a tax or duty incentive for example. Nor for that matter an increase in duty once Diesel use increased. I can't really see a government conspiracy either way.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715