How would I go about getting a pay as you go electricity meter replaced with a normal billed meter? 30 January at 11:04PM in Energy 71 replies 1.8K views

GingerTim

Scorpio33 said:

EssexHebridean said:

Scorpio33 said:

I don't (and never will want a SM). 

My reasoning is:

- There is currently no advantage to me as a consumer apart from not having to put in meter readings each month (which takes less than 10 mins)
- It provides information on when I use energy which will enable energy companies to bill more for peak times. Or conversely, less for off-peak times - meaning load shifting could save money. More expensive peak rate electricity is coming for everyone IMO - the difference for those with a SM is that they will be able to benefit from the tariffs that allow them to then choose to use appliances etc at cheaper times. There is already a precedent being set elsewhere that no smart meter = increased costs.
- The data that flows to the energy company isn't controlled by me, meaning it could be interecepted, altered, or used to find out when I use energy and so when I will be home (in theory). Do you use a mobile phone? wifi? contactless or chip & pin bank card? 
- There is no evidence that having a smart meter leads to lower energy use. Personally, just because something tells me what I am using won't lead to me reducing usage - I will still want to watch TV and have a cup of tea. The Smart Meter will do nothing to reduce energy use - but the IHD that generally comes along with the smart meter can as it helps people to identify the high use items. (Clue - your kettle is one, the TV most likely not so much).  
- Smart meters give a lot more control to power companies.Oh yes - "control" that one gets trotted out a lot - you're not called Susan are you? Keen reader of the Daily Fail? Convinced that everything the BBC says is the gospel truth? No? OK - just checking.  First generation meant you couldn't swap supplier easily But those are no longer being installed? And in any event, there was never an issue with swaping supplier with a SMETS1 meter that I'm aware of? It just meant that people had to go back to the position they were in prior to having the SMETS1 - namely giving regular meter readings., second generation can easily be changed to pay as you go meters by the power companies (even without consent). The trick to avoiding this is to pay your bills, or, if you are struggling to pay your bills, to speak with the energy supplier.  If you don't pay, and don't engage, then they can change you to PAYG with OR without a smart meter - the "without" just tends to be a bit messier and may involve some damage...
- If there is an issue with the meter readings, I have no way of rectifying this - I will be at the mercy of energy companies who will insist everything is working ok (even if it is an issue with the meter or at thier end). We've seen threads here that suggest this is not true. 

Can someone give me any tangiable advantages that benefit me?

The best advantage in the long term that having a smart meter will have for you is that it will almost certainly end up saving you money due to favourable tariffs that you will be unable to access without one. Whether that is a benefit to you or not, only you can decide! 

Fair enough.

I'm defo not a daily fail reader lol. I am all for innovation, but it just seems to be change for change sake when it doesn't give anything long term apart from an excuse for the energy suppliers to increase prices?

Sadly, energy prices are going (and will go) up whatever meters are used, as humankind weans itself off fossil fuels. Smart meters provide an opportunity to mitigate against those rises.

diystarter7

Keep_pedalling said:

diystarter7 said:

Leeroy909 said:

Hi folks, so I've just moved into a property supplied by SSE that has a pay as you go leccy meter. This is obviously quite inconvenient, so I've tried to get them to change it back to a normal meter and get bills like I've always had and like every other meter in the building. However, they've been extremely pushy with trying to get me to have a smart meter, going as far as lying to get me to agree to an appointment and hanging up on me to prevent me cancelling the appointment.

Would anyone be able to tell me how I can change back over to a normal billed meter and not a smart meter? The only other thing I can think to do is change supplier to one that would be less hassle to get this done. If this is the only thing I can do, how would I do it and which supplier would be the best to get it done?

Thanks!

Hi OP

It's not your outfit that does that

From our supplier and I have made an official complaint to get it stopped. You get a call they talk fast and tell us "you need to get a smart meter installed as per government incentive........."  Thy make it sound as though its mandatory and when challenged they get confused,

I complained a couple of months ago and the first response was bs cut and paste that claimed to have confirmed I wanted a smart meter I was a bit unhappy with that so rang up, demanded to speak with a manager and that took doing then got an apology and they agreed to "train up.." the staff that had rang us,


I would not have a Smart meter as posting here about it having read the problems, though these problems may be small when compared to the numbers installed, it is not for us. The first generation smart meters, lol, the stories I've rad about them wanting to change to another supplier, gen two has addressed this they say

Another fear I have is once there are a few more of these smart meters - as recent weeks the suppliers gave a "discount" to some that opted not to use gas/elctiric at a certain tiem - its only a matter of time before those on smart meters may be asked to pay more during peak hours.

We have a water meter not via choice but because we moved - costs a lot more than not having one for us.

Sadly as another poster said, you will need to keep the meter you have or move if you want the meter the old type metter millions have in their homes in  England

Thanks

So in the OPs position you would rather stay as a PAYG customer with all the inconvenience that entails rather than have a SM? 

Hi

You will have to ask the OP that as I'm a different poster.  I'm sure the OP has their reasons, hence the thread.
I can only guess but do have an idea but the OP is in a better position to answer self.

Thanks

macman

How exactly does it 'give them an excuse to increase prices'? Smart meter users have exactly the same tarrifs as dumb meter users. The only difference is that smart meter uses can optionally utilise TOU tarrifs in the future, but it will still be optional. 
You don't change tarrif when you change the meter.

diystarter7

Scorpio33 said:

Currently it may be true that the tarrifs are more expensive for a non-smart meter, but there is nothing saying that will be the case long term. Even if it was, I'm not sure that outweighs the other disadvantages. That is to say that even if I accept that it will be cheaper on a smart meter, in my opinion, that doesn't make up for the other issues.

I currently pay 34.23p/kWh for Electricity and 10.46p/kWh for Gas.

Hiya
Exactly that, thanks!

I recall diesel cars being bigged up our honest government. As soon as diesel cars took off based on lies, ie better for the environment/etc, diesel started becoming more expensive than petrol for the first time I could recall them being much more expensive.

I find it worrying how hard the call agents trying to push these smart meters. No one cam tell me the suppliers are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts as they are there to make more money, not less and that is a fact!


Thanks

macman

The suppliers are all set targets by Ofgem to install smart meters, and they face penalties if they miss them. That is their only incentive. They are not making money from installing them, as you are already paying for the install through your bill, whether you have one installed personally or not: the cost is about £400 per household.
Diesel cars are better for C02 output, because they are more economic, but they produced more particulates, which is why they are now more heavily taxed. Technology has now moved on in 20 years, and we had the option of more economic petrol engines, and now electric cars instead.
Don't read conspiracy theories into everything you see.

EssexHebridean

Scorpio33 said:

EssexHebridean said:

Scorpio33 said:

I don't (and never will want a SM). 

My reasoning is:

- There is currently no advantage to me as a consumer apart from not having to put in meter readings each month (which takes less than 10 mins)
- It provides information on when I use energy which will enable energy companies to bill more for peak times. Or conversely, less for off-peak times - meaning load shifting could save money. More expensive peak rate electricity is coming for everyone IMO - the difference for those with a SM is that they will be able to benefit from the tariffs that allow them to then choose to use appliances etc at cheaper times. There is already a precedent being set elsewhere that no smart meter = increased costs.
- The data that flows to the energy company isn't controlled by me, meaning it could be interecepted, altered, or used to find out when I use energy and so when I will be home (in theory). Do you use a mobile phone? wifi? contactless or chip & pin bank card? 
- There is no evidence that having a smart meter leads to lower energy use. Personally, just because something tells me what I am using won't lead to me reducing usage - I will still want to watch TV and have a cup of tea. The Smart Meter will do nothing to reduce energy use - but the IHD that generally comes along with the smart meter can as it helps people to identify the high use items. (Clue - your kettle is one, the TV most likely not so much).  
- Smart meters give a lot more control to power companies.Oh yes - "control" that one gets trotted out a lot - you're not called Susan are you? Keen reader of the Daily Fail? Convinced that everything the BBC says is the gospel truth? No? OK - just checking.  First generation meant you couldn't swap supplier easily But those are no longer being installed? And in any event, there was never an issue with swaping supplier with a SMETS1 meter that I'm aware of? It just meant that people had to go back to the position they were in prior to having the SMETS1 - namely giving regular meter readings., second generation can easily be changed to pay as you go meters by the power companies (even without consent). The trick to avoiding this is to pay your bills, or, if you are struggling to pay your bills, to speak with the energy supplier.  If you don't pay, and don't engage, then they can change you to PAYG with OR without a smart meter - the "without" just tends to be a bit messier and may involve some damage...
- If there is an issue with the meter readings, I have no way of rectifying this - I will be at the mercy of energy companies who will insist everything is working ok (even if it is an issue with the meter or at thier end). We've seen threads here that suggest this is not true. 

Can someone give me any tangiable advantages that benefit me?

The best advantage in the long term that having a smart meter will have for you is that it will almost certainly end up saving you money due to favourable tariffs that you will be unable to access without one. Whether that is a benefit to you or not, only you can decide! 

Fair enough.

I'm defo not a daily fail reader lol. I am all for innovation, but it just seems to be change for change sake when it doesn't give anything long term apart from an excuse for the energy suppliers to increase prices?

Fair play for you for such a measured response - and I’m glad about the Daily Fail thing! 😆

The biggest general advantage (rather than specifically for you as a consumer) to smart metering is that it means that there can be far better management of what power is needed at what time - and yes, encouraging people to use power other than at the peak times is definitely part of that. Some people will naturally be happy to use energy at off peak times if they understand why they need to  - others require more of an incentive. It’s not sustainable to continue to offer to pay people for reducing their use, so ultimately, the alternative is to “encourage” them by making it more expensive to use energy at those times.

Dolor

At the moment, Ofgem does not need to impose smart meters on anyone as demand is outstripping supply. The Government (BEIS) has made the pragmatic decision that end-of-life analogue meters can now be replaced with smart meters without the homeowner’s permission. Suppliers have an obligation under The Gas and Electricity Acts to ensure that meters used for billing are within their certification periods.

diystarter7

EssexHebridean said:

Scorpio33 said:

I don't (and never will want a SM). 

My reasoning is:

- There is currently no advantage to me as a consumer apart from not having to put in meter readings each month (which takes less than 10 mins)
- It provides information on when I use energy which will enable energy companies to bill more for peak times. Or conversely, less for off-peak times - meaning load shifting could save money. More expensive peak rate electricity is coming for everyone IMO - the difference for those with a SM is that they will be able to benefit from the tariffs that allow them to then choose to use appliances etc at cheaper times. There is already a precedent being set elsewhere that no smart meter = increased costs.
- The data that flows to the energy company isn't controlled by me, meaning it could be interecepted, altered, or used to find out when I use energy and so when I will be home (in theory). Do you use a mobile phone? wifi? contactless or chip & pin bank card? 
- There is no evidence that having a smart meter leads to lower energy use. Personally, just because something tells me what I am using won't lead to me reducing usage - I will still want to watch TV and have a cup of tea. The Smart Meter will do nothing to reduce energy use - but the IHD that generally comes along with the smart meter can as it helps people to identify the high use items. (Clue - your kettle is one, the TV most likely not so much).  
- Smart meters give a lot more control to power companies.Oh yes - "control" that one gets trotted out a lot - you're not called Susan are you? Keen reader of the Daily Fail? Convinced that everything the BBC says is the gospel truth? No? OK - just checking.  First generation meant you couldn't swap supplier easily But those are no longer being installed? And in any event, there was never an issue with swaping supplier with a SMETS1 meter that I'm aware of? It just meant that people had to go back to the position they were in prior to having the SMETS1 - namely giving regular meter readings., second generation can easily be changed to pay as you go meters by the power companies (even without consent). The trick to avoiding this is to pay your bills, or, if you are struggling to pay your bills, to speak with the energy supplier.  If you don't pay, and don't engage, then they can change you to PAYG with OR without a smart meter - the "without" just tends to be a bit messier and may involve some damage...
- If there is an issue with the meter readings, I have no way of rectifying this - I will be at the mercy of energy companies who will insist everything is working ok (even if it is an issue with the meter or at thier end). We've seen threads here that suggest this is not true. 

Can someone give me any tangiable advantages that benefit me?

The best advantage in the long term that having a smart meter will have for you is that it will almost certainly end up saving you money due to favourable tariffs that you will be unable to access without one. Whether that is a benefit to you or not, only you can decide! 

Highlighted bit, for how long?
Is this why suppliers are pushing, pushing hard so hard for these meters that people like me and others complain for them not being open and honest?

Do not forget, these smart meter providers/suppliers are a business and I have yet to meet a good business man that pays a lot of money to get things changed when there is no reason to and then offer a better deal

Thank you.

macman

diystarter7 said:

EssexHebridean said:

Scorpio33 said:

I don't (and never will want a SM). 

My reasoning is:

- There is currently no advantage to me as a consumer apart from not having to put in meter readings each month (which takes less than 10 mins)
- It provides information on when I use energy which will enable energy companies to bill more for peak times. Or conversely, less for off-peak times - meaning load shifting could save money. More expensive peak rate electricity is coming for everyone IMO - the difference for those with a SM is that they will be able to benefit from the tariffs that allow them to then choose to use appliances etc at cheaper times. There is already a precedent being set elsewhere that no smart meter = increased costs.
- The data that flows to the energy company isn't controlled by me, meaning it could be interecepted, altered, or used to find out when I use energy and so when I will be home (in theory). Do you use a mobile phone? wifi? contactless or chip & pin bank card? 
- There is no evidence that having a smart meter leads to lower energy use. Personally, just because something tells me what I am using won't lead to me reducing usage - I will still want to watch TV and have a cup of tea. The Smart Meter will do nothing to reduce energy use - but the IHD that generally comes along with the smart meter can as it helps people to identify the high use items. (Clue - your kettle is one, the TV most likely not so much).  
- Smart meters give a lot more control to power companies.Oh yes - "control" that one gets trotted out a lot - you're not called Susan are you? Keen reader of the Daily Fail? Convinced that everything the BBC says is the gospel truth? No? OK - just checking.  First generation meant you couldn't swap supplier easily But those are no longer being installed? And in any event, there was never an issue with swaping supplier with a SMETS1 meter that I'm aware of? It just meant that people had to go back to the position they were in prior to having the SMETS1 - namely giving regular meter readings., second generation can easily be changed to pay as you go meters by the power companies (even without consent). The trick to avoiding this is to pay your bills, or, if you are struggling to pay your bills, to speak with the energy supplier.  If you don't pay, and don't engage, then they can change you to PAYG with OR without a smart meter - the "without" just tends to be a bit messier and may involve some damage...
- If there is an issue with the meter readings, I have no way of rectifying this - I will be at the mercy of energy companies who will insist everything is working ok (even if it is an issue with the meter or at thier end). We've seen threads here that suggest this is not true. 

Can someone give me any tangiable advantages that benefit me?

The best advantage in the long term that having a smart meter will have for you is that it will almost certainly end up saving you money due to favourable tariffs that you will be unable to access without one. Whether that is a benefit to you or not, only you can decide! 

Highlighted bit, for how long?
Is this why suppliers are pushing, pushing hard so hard for these meters that people like me and others complain for them not being open and honest?

Do not forget, these smart meter providers/suppliers are a business and I have yet to meet a good business man that pays a lot of money to get things changed when there is no reason to and then offer a better deal

Thank you.

But they're not paying anything to install them. The capital cost is already built into your tariff, whether you have one installed or not, as has already been explained to you.

EssexHebridean

diystarter7 said:

macman said:

Those on smart meters will have access to TOU tariffs, so rates will vary by the half hour. No different to E7, but much more flexible and sophisticated. 
If you had a water meter fitted from the day you moved into the property, then how do you know you are paying 'much more' compared to RV biling, since you will have never paid an RV bill at that property? 

Simple answer, same family composition, same number of baths/showers, using the washing machine, flushing the loo, hours spend at home  - we moved within the same water supplier area - does that help?

Whilst not wanting to take this OT, since the issue has been raised...
The whole point of metered water is it means that people pay for what they actually use, rather than the RV system where some people (often those least in a position to afford it) will be paying far more than the "real" cost while others use it far more profligately and are in essence subsidised by others as a result. If the amount of water you are using seems expensive to you in comparison to your previous rated amount, and as you say all other things are equal, then that could perhaps be a prompt to consider where you can use less water. Expecting households which may well have substantially les financial privilege than you to pay for some of what you are using though seems a little unreasonable - I'm sure you expect to pay your dues in life, no? 

diystarter7 said:

EssexHebridean said:

Scorpio33 said:

I don't (and never will want a SM). 

My reasoning is:

- There is currently no advantage to me as a consumer apart from not having to put in meter readings each month (which takes less than 10 mins)
- It provides information on when I use energy which will enable energy companies to bill more for peak times. Or conversely, less for off-peak times - meaning load shifting could save money. More expensive peak rate electricity is coming for everyone IMO - the difference for those with a SM is that they will be able to benefit from the tariffs that allow them to then choose to use appliances etc at cheaper times. There is already a precedent being set elsewhere that no smart meter = increased costs.
- The data that flows to the energy company isn't controlled by me, meaning it could be interecepted, altered, or used to find out when I use energy and so when I will be home (in theory). Do you use a mobile phone? wifi? contactless or chip & pin bank card? 
- There is no evidence that having a smart meter leads to lower energy use. Personally, just because something tells me what I am using won't lead to me reducing usage - I will still want to watch TV and have a cup of tea. The Smart Meter will do nothing to reduce energy use - but the IHD that generally comes along with the smart meter can as it helps people to identify the high use items. (Clue - your kettle is one, the TV most likely not so much).  
- Smart meters give a lot more control to power companies.Oh yes - "control" that one gets trotted out a lot - you're not called Susan are you? Keen reader of the Daily Fail? Convinced that everything the BBC says is the gospel truth? No? OK - just checking.  First generation meant you couldn't swap supplier easily But those are no longer being installed? And in any event, there was never an issue with swaping supplier with a SMETS1 meter that I'm aware of? It just meant that people had to go back to the position they were in prior to having the SMETS1 - namely giving regular meter readings., second generation can easily be changed to pay as you go meters by the power companies (even without consent). The trick to avoiding this is to pay your bills, or, if you are struggling to pay your bills, to speak with the energy supplier.  If you don't pay, and don't engage, then they can change you to PAYG with OR without a smart meter - the "without" just tends to be a bit messier and may involve some damage...
- If there is an issue with the meter readings, I have no way of rectifying this - I will be at the mercy of energy companies who will insist everything is working ok (even if it is an issue with the meter or at thier end). We've seen threads here that suggest this is not true. 

Can someone give me any tangiable advantages that benefit me?

The best advantage in the long term that having a smart meter will have for you is that it will almost certainly end up saving you money due to favourable tariffs that you will be unable to access without one. Whether that is a benefit to you or not, only you can decide! 

Highlighted bit, for how long?
Is this why suppliers are pushing, pushing hard so hard for these meters that people like me and others complain for them not being open and honest?

Do not forget, these smart meter providers/suppliers are a business and I have yet to meet a good business man that pays a lot of money to get things changed when there is no reason to and then offer a better deal

Thank you.

Most of those in charge of successful businesses recognise the need to upgrade things when needed, and that there is little benefit in persisting with using old technology when something is now in existence that will perform the task more efficiently. I don't see too many Eddie Stobart Horse & Cart set-ups on the streets, and James Dyson didn't make his fortune selling brooms, as far as I can recall? 

It's been explained to you repeatedly both here and elsewhere why suppliers are encouraging people to move to Smart Meters, and that the cost of the rollout is being paid by everyone.