Used Car Values !!

faisal93

I run a car sourcing business and have definitely noticed the decline in EV values. There are 3 things predominantly driving this: 1) EVs were significantly higher priced than ICE cars when new and high energy prices mean that the low running cost appeal to offset the high purchase price simply isn't materialising, killing used demand. 2) Range anxiety and charging infrastructure whilst vastly improved, still isn't there yet. And 3) New adopters of EVs have similar buying habits to those buying the latest iPhone every year, always wanting the latest model jumping between PCP deals. This has created a glut of supply every time a new EV is launched. This most noticeably happened with Tesla as the Korean EVs entered at a lower price point with equivalent real world range. I personally think it will continue like this for at least the next 3-5 years until EV's volume overtakes ICE cars.

fred990

faisal93 said:

I run a car sourcing business and have definitely noticed the decline in EV values. There are 3 things predominantly driving this: 1) EVs were significantly higher priced than ICE cars when new and high energy prices mean that the low running cost appeal to offset the high purchase price simply isn't materialising, killing used demand. 2) Range anxiety and charging infrastructure whilst vastly improved, still isn't there yet. And 3) New adopters of EVs have similar buying habits to those buying the latest iPhone every year, always wanting the latest model jumping between PCP deals. This has created a glut of supply every time a new EV is launched. This most noticeably happened with Tesla as the Korean EVs entered at a lower price point with equivalent real world range. I personally think it will continue like this for at least the next 3-5 years until EV's volume overtakes ICE cars.

Yup, sounds like a very sensible appraisal of what's actually going on unlike the wishful thinking of EVangelists and the resident self appointed expert here. 
Point 3 sums up the pcp hamster wheel/merry-go-round perfectly. 
A broadsheet paper today has an article that EV's might become the new cassette tape!! 
We are watching and waiting...ev makes no sense whatsoever at the moment for us. 
Remaining optimistic it will change in years to come....like heat pumps, lol.

[Deleted User]

JKenH said:

Two Tesla M3s listed today below £24k and 17 now below £27k. Interestingly the total number for sale is still dropping, down to 1557. Could this be because the car dealers are reluctant to buy them at auction?

https://tesla-info.com/inventory/UK/

I think what might be more significant is that Tesla themselves have reduced the prices of the used M3s they have in stock. A couple of weeks ago I recall there weren’t any below £30k but today they start at £26,600. This includes a  1 year Tesla warranty. This car was originally listed by Tesla on 2 December at £35k.

Meanwhile WBAC has lifted the valuation on the M3P I was following to £27,405. On 2 Feb this had been £25,135 and on 28 Jan £23,195.

Read into that whatever you like.

Edit: Today’s figure from WBAC for my old 20plate 40kWh Leaf at 18k miles is £11,565. On 23 Jan it was £13,585 and in October last year £20,685.

Edit 2: The WBAC valuation for my 2020 Golf 1.0 petrol estate has gone back to £15,000 which is exactly the same as it was on 17 November, having been as low as £14,645 on 6 Jan.

The Tesla M3 is the new Mondeo. I feel like 90% of them are white too. Loads coming off lease now.

[Deleted User]

fred990 said:

faisal93 said:

I run a car sourcing business and have definitely noticed the decline in EV values. There are 3 things predominantly driving this: 1) EVs were significantly higher priced than ICE cars when new and high energy prices mean that the low running cost appeal to offset the high purchase price simply isn't materialising, killing used demand. 2) Range anxiety and charging infrastructure whilst vastly improved, still isn't there yet. And 3) New adopters of EVs have similar buying habits to those buying the latest iPhone every year, always wanting the latest model jumping between PCP deals. This has created a glut of supply every time a new EV is launched. This most noticeably happened with Tesla as the Korean EVs entered at a lower price point with equivalent real world range. I personally think it will continue like this for at least the next 3-5 years until EV's volume overtakes ICE cars.

Yup, sounds like a very sensible appraisal of what's actually going on unlike the wishful thinking of EVangelists and the resident self appointed expert here. 
Point 3 sums up the pcp hamster wheel/merry-go-round perfectly. 
A broadsheet paper today has an article that EV's might become the new cassette tape!! 
We are watching and waiting...ev makes no sense whatsoever at the moment for us. 
Remaining optimistic it will change in years to come....like heat pumps, lol.

On the other hand, I know a lot of people, myself included at the moment, who have been waiting for prices to come down and good used EVs to reach the market before buying one.

I actually had a couple before. The charging infrastructure was fine, no issues even back then, and even at current rates they would be much cheaper to run. Much more convenient too - people who have never owned one don't appreciate just how good home charging is.

fred990

[Deleted User] said:

fred990 said:

faisal93 said:

I run a car sourcing business and have definitely noticed the decline in EV values. There are 3 things predominantly driving this: 1) EVs were significantly higher priced than ICE cars when new and high energy prices mean that the low running cost appeal to offset the high purchase price simply isn't materialising, killing used demand. 2) Range anxiety and charging infrastructure whilst vastly improved, still isn't there yet. And 3) New adopters of EVs have similar buying habits to those buying the latest iPhone every year, always wanting the latest model jumping between PCP deals. This has created a glut of supply every time a new EV is launched. This most noticeably happened with Tesla as the Korean EVs entered at a lower price point with equivalent real world range. I personally think it will continue like this for at least the next 3-5 years until EV's volume overtakes ICE cars.

Yup, sounds like a very sensible appraisal of what's actually going on unlike the wishful thinking of EVangelists and the resident self appointed expert here. 
Point 3 sums up the pcp hamster wheel/merry-go-round perfectly. 
A broadsheet paper today has an article that EV's might become the new cassette tape!! 
We are watching and waiting...ev makes no sense whatsoever at the moment for us. 
Remaining optimistic it will change in years to come....like heat pumps, lol.

On the other hand, I know a lot of people, myself included at the moment, who have been waiting for prices to come down and good used EVs to reach the market before buying one.

I actually had a couple before. The charging infrastructure was fine, no issues even back then, and even at current rates they would be much cheaper to run. Much more convenient too - people who have never owned one don't appreciate just how good home charging is.

Interesting that you and a lot of people that you know are waiting for prices to come down for good used EVs before buying one....makes a lot of sense to me. 

What made you have a couple before? 
What did you replace them with, diesel or petrol and why so?
Sounds like you were very happy with the infrastructure with no issues but didn't keep them....company cars I guess?

JKenH

JKenH said:

Two Tesla M3s listed today below £24k and 17 now below £27k. Interestingly the total number for sale is still dropping, down to 1557. Could this be because the car dealers are reluctant to buy them at auction?

https://tesla-info.com/inventory/UK/

I think what might be more significant is that Tesla themselves have reduced the prices of the used M3s they have in stock. A couple of weeks ago I recall there weren’t any below £30k but today they start at £26,600. This includes a  1 year Tesla warranty. This car was originally listed by Tesla on 2 December at £35k.

Meanwhile WBAC has lifted the valuation on the M3P I was following to £27,405. On 2 Feb this had been £25,135 and on 28 Jan £23,195.

Read into that whatever you like.

Edit: Today’s figure from WBAC for my old 20plate 40kWh Leaf at 18k miles is £11,565. On 23 Jan it was £13,585 and in October last year £20,685.

Edit 2: The WBAC valuation for my 2020 Golf 1.0 petrol estate has gone back to £15,000 which is exactly the same as it was on 17 November, having been as low as £14,645 on 6 Jan.

Today, the cheapest M3 listed by Tesla is £25,300 and Tesla list 10 below £27k. Outside the Tesla network, the cheapest M3 is now £21,950 but over the weekend there was one below £21k. 

JKenH

A bit of a milestone, today. It’s high miles but this the first TM3 I have seen advertised below £20k. It doesn’t seem that long since we broke through the £30k barrier. 

 https://tesla-info.com/car/GB-e821adfa6723

Tesla are offering a 2019(69) 67k miles Model 3 with Enhanced Autopilot in silver for £24,300. (Edit 2 March: price reduced to £24,100). This includes Tesla’s own one year 10k miles warranty.

https://tesla-info.com/car/GB-5YJ3F7EA2KF444538

or for about £2k more you can get a 75k miles Long Range, again from Tesla with EAP and 1 year warranty. 

https://tesla-info.com/car/GB-5YJ3F7EB0KF427939

fred990

Some pretty high mileages there.
I remember looking for an Audi A2 years ago, super economical but used they had sky high mileages. So cheap on diesel that apparently owners simply drove more rather than having one to save on fuel!!
Same with electric maybe....but not anymore?

JKenH

Back in the 1980s I bought a 3 year old Audi 100 with 120k miles on the clock for £1200. Drove superbly but an electronic component failure rendered it beyond economic repair. I don’t think Tesla suspension survives the miles as well as a premium German car, but the battery should still be going strong. 

tifo

JKenH said:

Back in the 1980s I bought a 3 year old Audi 100 with 120k miles on the clock for £1200. Drove superbly but an electronic component failure rendered it beyond economic repair. I don’t think Tesla suspension survives the miles as well as a premium German car, but the battery should still be going strong. 

German cars are good but they have a lot of electrical problems, even newer cars. We've had this on BMW, MB, Audi and VW, all under 3 years old and much more problems once they over 3 years and the warranty is expired. And they're very expensive to repair esp from dealer, when other garages won't touch them as they don't have the equipment.