Economy 7. Check your options!!

johnc

Nath4n said:

Good thread - I've been meaning to make a similar one myself but I'll just add here.

We're in the exact same situation. We're in an electricity only flat using a large NSH. Roughly 70% of our usage is off peak. OVO are AWFUL. They put our DD up by 10% in Jan and wouldn't explain why or refund our (large) credit balance. Reasonably naïve several weeks ago to the whole E7 thing, I now understand from research and MSE that this is because E7 users got a little screwed by the 1st Jan energy price cap re-calculations. OVO wanted to increase BOTH Day and Night rate by 10-20% and the customer agent was beyond abrasive and effectively hung up on us.

The terrible customer service experience ironically did us a huge favour as I too ended up down an unexpected rabbit hole in finding that different providers have VASTLY different E7 pricing splits (i.e. day vs night) even under the current price cap conditions. It's impossible to get this data on price comparison websites so I did a bunch of manual quotes from providers and compiled it all into a spreadsheet against our usage.

In our region (London), both EDF and Utility Warehouse have night rates less than half of OVO (OVO 26p vs 13p on UW), and as mentioned by the OP - these night rates can be much lower in other regions. When I plugged all the figures into the spreadsheet I found that we would save at least £30 a MONTH vs OVO's 1st Jan rates.

I rang UW a couple of weeks back and started a switch, incredibly it was actioned the next day and we've just received a final bill and a full refund of the large credit balance from OVO. Good riddance.

Definitely shop around and get E7 quotes from various providers and use a basic spreadsheet to calculate your general usage against each Day / Night split. You could also make huge savings if you use 50%+ off peak. Happy to share my basic spreadsheet, I've since seen more advanced ones elsewhere on MSE but happy to share mine if useful - drop me a PM.

Really interesting - I don't normally look at the forums but I have been analysing my usage since I noticed the Ovo offer of £50 credit if you switch before the end of the month which is the first switching offer I have seen in a while. Considering that. 

Clearly I need to search on the forums about E7 as I thought it was strange that nowhere else would I read about this. To be honest I think the E7 has completely helped me during the bills crisis - before a year or so ago I would rave to my friends about how low my bills were using E7. For me with Storage heaters and Hot water all on E7, 80% of my electricity is on the night rate. 

I switched to Utility Warehouse Nov 21 when they promised they had slightly lower rates than the price cap - while their customer service leaves something to be desired the rates have been lower than whatever I have seen randomly on other providers. I am going to drop you a PM as it would be great to see your spreadsheet. It's a shame MSE Energy Club is not showing it all as it used to do. 

Scot_39

Mikesww said:

RedFraggle said:

Rointe will cost more than NSH to run. I would avoid. 

We’re told electricity is cleaner/greener… but it’s so much more expensive than gas!  Air source isn’t a viable option.  Installing gas and putting in central heating is a huge job.  Which is why we are tempted by the Rointe rads.  There’s a ceiling price here (and we’re on a tight renovation budget as we are first time buyers) so need to be careful how much we spend.  So many options and lots to think through.  I’m glad we haven’t made a decision yet and will give it a lot more thought. 

Rointe heaters and their like could in potentially wipe ££££s off your property value.

And impact its EPC rating at next review.

Savvy buyers are only too aware of running costs right now.

And at the top of the tree - are daytime peak rate electric heating panel heaters.

Their cheap heaters are cheap, but their more expensive run only a few 100 below quantum and the likes.

And even if E7 dies, other time of use tariffs will replace them.

And Dimplex already have a package that links RF series to WiFi with at least one supplier.

And sure they won't be the only ones planning accordingly.

Scot_39

littleteapot said:

This thread has lead me to contemplate something. The current and historic ToU such as E7, E10, THTC tarrifs have low rate periods that are the same timeslots every day. Controlling the input times to NSH and IH is either done using a contactor in or beside the meter to energise the inputs to NSH and IH during off peak periods, or in the case of modern NSH such as Dimplex Quantum or Elnur ECOHHR by a programmable electronic timer built into the NSH.

However future ToU tarrifs could potentially have wildly different low rate periods every day depending on how the wind is blowing or how sunny it has been. How will suppliers or consumers manage the switching of NSH and IH. Take for example octopus agile - the rates for each timeslot are published 24 hours in advance so technically consumers -could- decide when the rates are low enough to warrant charging NSH or IH and adjust the programming accordingly. But remembering to do  this every day, and it being quite a tedious process (using my elnurs as an example) mean its not really practical. I can't see anywhere in Octopus documentation any mention of setting a price threshold to engage the meter's inbuilt or external contactor either.

E10 is more variable from posts here depending maybe on legacy system replaced.

Mines has 3 slots 5hr night, 3 early afternoon and 2 evening,, others just  1 10 hr overnight (a sort of extended e7 from late evening c930pm start iirc in one post)

And even for E7 some of the regions are slighly offset by DNO time setpoints.

As to future.

Look at the latest manuals for likes of Quantum RF series - they have added a WiFi link to at least one supplier to tell them when to charge as far as I can gleam from the website and the  latest version of installation manual.

There's a brief section in 2023 installation manual on variable charge time tariffs.

See installation manual at 

https://www.dimplex.co.uk/product/quantum-rf-hhr-storage-heater


They are unlikely to be the only supplier working this way.


Ps I don't work for them or have them, just a potential future upgrade interest for when current 25 yr old ones die / fail or E10 dies.

Scot_39

EssexHebridean said:

While NSH's are still being installed as a main heating source though - which they very much still are - there will likely need to be some form of "overnight" off peak tariff with a long enough supply period to enable those heaters to charge up. Water heating can be done at any stage through the day, and could even be done via short bursts of off-peak rate scattered throughout the day at times to suit the energy supplier at least where a separate off-peak circuit is in use, but it's not so practical to deal with space heating in that way. 

E10already does my nsh charge say 1 hr 3 times a day, and modern hhrs should cope equally well.

It means the old ones actually work better - charge lower and give more consistent heat throughout day.

On E7  would have to charge on 1 slot to a higher temp in say 3 hrs rathef than 3x1 hr slots, and would be hottest at 3am on a typical e7 zone.



The dimplex hhr and cheaper creda tsre models have 4x a day charging window setpoints if needed for single wire install.

And reading between the lines, Dimplex have a tie in with (was it Ovo, and negotiating with 2 others) supplier for variable charge time tariffs.

WiFi link, via RF hub to hhr rf Quantum for now.

Scot_39

Re above "And reading between the lines, Dimplex have a tie in with (was it Ovo, and negotiating with 2 others) supplier for variable charge time tariffs.

WiFi link, via RF hub to hhr rf Quantum for now."

Edit: found this on Ovo site 

https://www.ovoenergy.com/terms/smart-home-heat

Suggesting ovo managing full supply package inc survey,  heaters and installation. But not details of the plan info itself.

And this for EDF trial
https://www.edfenergy.com/media-centre/news-releases/kaluza-edf-dimplex-join-forces-cut-carbon-through-smart-heating