Economy 7. Check your options!!

EssexHebridean

I’ll second the thinking that TOU tariffs are the future. It’s going to become more and more necessary for the energy companies to encourage people to use power at specific times, or blocks of time, IMO, already we’re seeing particularly the likes of Octopus really building a business model on TOU.

littleteapot

This thread has lead me to contemplate something. The current and historic ToU such as E7, E10, THTC tarrifs have low rate periods that are the same timeslots every day. Controlling the input times to NSH and IH is either done using a contactor in or beside the meter to energise the inputs to NSH and IH during off peak periods, or in the case of modern NSH such as Dimplex Quantum or Elnur ECOHHR by a programmable electronic timer built into the NSH.

However future ToU tarrifs could potentially have wildly different low rate periods every day depending on how the wind is blowing or how sunny it has been. How will suppliers or consumers manage the switching of NSH and IH. Take for example octopus agile - the rates for each timeslot are published 24 hours in advance so technically consumers -could- decide when the rates are low enough to warrant charging NSH or IH and adjust the programming accordingly. But remembering to do  this every day, and it being quite a tedious process (using my elnurs as an example) mean its not really practical. I can't see anywhere in Octopus documentation any mention of setting a price threshold to engage the meter's inbuilt or external contactor either.

Alnat1

Agile is the only TOU tariff where prices change every 30 minutes but there are dozens of other tariffs by many suppliers than give reduced prices at different set times of the day/night. Octopus also offer Go, Intelligent and Cosy as well as the E7. Other companies are increasingly bringing out new TOU tariffs. They are not going away, they are the future.

dunstonh

HOWEVER, it might be worth looking into different suppliers if you are on E7 as I’ve realised they vary massively.

Yes, there have been multiple threads on this already.    Although some people on E7 seem to struggle with the concept.

We just moved from Bulb to EDF as their E7 pricing suited our 70% off peak use and our billing is now less than it was two years ago.   Someone with 20% off peak use would find EDF damned expensive.   

It is also worth noting that regional pricing impacts on which supplier can be best as well.

Good point.  I just felt that E7 was a very old tariff that may not be around for much longer.  Need to reconsider our options and have a chat with the electrician. 

Multi-tariff options are on the increase.  Not decline.   Hybrid and EV owners also suit E7 (or other variants).   We have an electric AGA and that suits E7.  You don't need NSH to find E7 is a viable option.   Multi-tariff may well have faded in time but the push to electric will see it used more and more.

[Deleted User]

It is a reasonable assume that E7 will not be available in its present form in the years ahead. Even Octopus, which is the industry lead when it comes to time-of-use tariffs, is moving away from fixed offpeak periods for such things as EV charging. The current direction of travel is intelligent tariffs which offer the same overall charging time but spread over a longer time span to make best use of high supply/low demand periods.

EssexHebridean

While NSH's are still being installed as a main heating source though - which they very much still are - there will likely need to be some form of "overnight" off peak tariff with a long enough supply period to enable those heaters to charge up. Water heating can be done at any stage through the day, and could even be done via short bursts of off-peak rate scattered throughout the day at times to suit the energy supplier at least where a separate off-peak circuit is in use, but it's not so practical to deal with space heating in that way. 

[Deleted User]

EssexHebridean said:

While NSH's are still being installed as a main heating source though - which they very much still are - there will likely need to be some form of "overnight" off peak tariff with a long enough supply period to enable those heaters to charge up. Water heating can be done at any stage through the day, and could even be done via short bursts of off-peak rate scattered throughout the day at times to suit the energy supplier at least where a separate off-peak circuit is in use, but it's not so practical to deal with space heating in that way. 

Agreed - but it could be done from, say, 10pm to 7am making use of the cheapest 30 minute supply cost periods with the option for a cheap top up mid morning and mid afternoon. Remember, smart meters have the ability to store 48 * 30 minute unit prices on each of their 4 registers.

FWiW, whilst the Press is focussed on the latest National Grid Demand Flexibility Scheme no one has mentioned the other key reason for this initiative. Grid demand can be limited by contract with a power limit (kW) at given times of the day. For example, a customer that agrees to say a 3kW limit would pay considerably less for electricity than a customer on a 6kW limit contract. This type of contract is now used in mainland Europe. The present ‘trial’ will provide excellent feedback on how responsive consumers are to shifting demand through pricing.

Nath4n

Good thread - I've been meaning to make a similar one myself but I'll just add here.

We're in the exact same situation. We're in an electricity only flat using a large NSH. Roughly 70% of our usage is off peak. OVO are AWFUL. They put our DD up by 10% in Jan and wouldn't explain why or refund our (large) credit balance. Reasonably naïve several weeks ago to the whole E7 thing, I now understand from research and MSE that this is because E7 users got a little screwed by the 1st Jan energy price cap re-calculations. OVO wanted to increase BOTH Day and Night rate by 10-20% and the customer agent was beyond abrasive and effectively hung up on us.

The terrible customer service experience ironically did us a huge favour as I too ended up down an unexpected rabbit hole in finding that different providers have VASTLY different E7 pricing splits (i.e. day vs night) even under the current price cap conditions. It's impossible to get this data on price comparison websites so I did a bunch of manual quotes from providers and compiled it all into a spreadsheet against our usage.

In our region (London), both EDF and Utility Warehouse have night rates less than half of OVO (OVO 26p vs 13p on UW), and as mentioned by the OP - these night rates can be much lower in other regions. When I plugged all the figures into the spreadsheet I found that we would save at least £30 a MONTH vs OVO's 1st Jan rates.

I rang UW a couple of weeks back and started a switch, incredibly it was actioned the next day and we've just received a final bill and a full refund of the large credit balance from OVO. Good riddance.

Definitely shop around and get E7 quotes from various providers and use a basic spreadsheet to calculate your general usage against each Day / Night split. You could also make huge savings if you use 50%+ off peak. Happy to share my basic spreadsheet, I've since seen more advanced ones elsewhere on MSE but happy to share mine if useful - drop me a PM.

EssexHebridean

It wasn't so much that E7 users got screwed by the Jan 1st price increase - more that until that point generally speaking E7 users had been flying under the radar with prices that were below the EPG rates that those on single rate tariffs are paying, and the Jan 1st increases straightens that out... Sure, I'd sooner the increase hadn't happened, but I'm also pragmatic enough to realise that I can't really complain, in the circumstances! 

macman

Mikesww said:

macman said:

Ditching E7 is insane. Why? Any electric heating running on single rate is going to cost you at least 250% more for heating and hot water, which is up to 80% of your total energy usage.

Good point.  I just felt that E7 was a very old tariff that may not be around for much longer.  Need to reconsider our options and have a chat with the electrician. 

What makes you think that? E7 has been around for 50 years and there are at least 2.5m homes using it. There will be more sophisticated TOU tariffs becoming available imminently, but E7 won't be phased out. 
Thee is no more expensive way to hear a property than single rate electricity. If you must, just use the cheapest convectors you can find, from about £30 each. Why Rointe? They are no more efficient than your existing NSH'S: both 100%.