Gas meter and smart meter faults

brittain151

Hi,

I’be been with British Gas for 8 years and also had a smart meter since they came out. Over the past 3 years my gas meter outside where the gas pipe entered our property completely stops working and we lose our meter readings. It’s happened 3 times now. The engineer said something about it running out of battery and it’s easier to put a new meter in rather than replacing battery. Surely they should be mains powered? 

The other issue I have is our smart meter inside although has recorded electricity and gas usage on the screen only actually sends the electricity reading to BG not the gas reading. So now we have no record of gas usage over the winter. I kept meaning to take a reading but never got round to it. So I’m worried the estimated reading is way too much to what we have been using. I’ve rang BG up numerous times to get the smart meter fixed to no avail. An engineer is coming to fix the outside meter so hopefully I get some there with them. I wonder if there is anyway to get the gas reading off the smart meter inside but it looks like all trace of gas usage has disappeared. 

Any advice would be appreciated in terms how to deal with BG going forward and checking we are being charged accurately as I assume they will just go by the estimate. How can they make an accurate estimate in a year when we are all trying extra hard to reduce our energy usage so previous years estimates could be very inaccurate? 

thanks
ian

MattMattMattUK

brittain151 said:

Hi,

I’be been with British Gas for 8 years and also had a smart meter since they came out. Over the past 3 years my gas meter outside where the gas pipe entered our property completely stops working and we lose our meter readings. It’s happened 3 times now. The engineer said something about it running out of battery and it’s easier to put a new meter in rather than replacing battery. Surely they should be mains powered? 

That would require an electrician to wire the gas meter in as well as a gas engineer. I suspect it is also regarded as inadvisable to wire a gas meter to the electricity supply. What they should be is designed with easily replaceable batteries, however that has the problem that some people would deliberately remove the battery, either to try and get free gas or because they are conspiracy theorists. 

brittain151 said:

The other issue I have is our smart meter inside although has recorded electricity and gas usage on the screen only actually sends the electricity reading to BG not the gas reading. So now we have no record of gas usage over the winter. I kept meaning to take a reading but never got round to it. So I’m worried the estimated reading is way too much to what we have been using. I’ve rang BG up numerous times to get the smart meter fixed to no avail. An engineer is coming to fix the outside meter so hopefully I get some there with them. I wonder if there is anyway to get the gas reading off the smart meter inside but it looks like all trace of gas usage has disappeared. 

Does the gas meter show nothing even if you press buttons, or just not transmit the data to BG? By "the smart meter inside" I presume you mean the IHD, the little display thing? That does not store any data but the meter should retain previous usage data up until the point the battery went flat, if that is indeed the problem.

brittain151 said:

Any advice would be appreciated in terms how to deal with BG going forward and checking we are being charged accurately as I assume they will just go by the estimate. How can they make an accurate estimate in a year when we are all trying extra hard to reduce our energy usage so previous years estimates could be very inaccurate? 

If the meter is totally dead then they will use estimates, though if there is data in the meter they will use that. If there is no data and you disagree with the estimates then you can ask them to run a comparison, they will monitor your usage over a week or two and apply that over the period in question, if that is the case then minimise your usage as much as possible during that reference period. However it may not come to that, if the data was still showing on the IHD then up until that point it would have been recording usage so it may only miss a narrow window. 

EssexHebridean

Jut for clarity - the device inside is the In Home Display, the thing that shows you how much you've used and what it costs etc. And it doesn't send any information to anyone - it simply informs you of the current state of play - or rather what it assumes the current state of play is likely to be. It doesn't affect the actual meter readings at all if it's not working though. 

The gas meter is indeed battery powered - and by the sound of it will be an older meter in any case so probably a replacement meter is a sensible way to go if they are not wiling to just change the battery which most suppliers seem not to. I'd raise a formal complaint with BG stating that you have been told that a new meter is required and asking them to book this as a matter of urgency and advise you of when it will happen. That also starts the clock ticking on when you will be able to escalate to the Ombudsman service if the matter isn't resolved. 

And yes - unfortunately like any failed meter, if the gas meter isn't producing readings, I'm afraid it will be estimates until it is replaced. You could - when they produce those estimates - make a case that like most others you have been trying to reduce use - but whether they will take notice is another question. The god news is that if they base the estimates on last year's use last winter was a pretty mild one.  I assume you have a record of the readings you HAVE been able to take from the Smart Meter as it sounds like this is an intermittent fault? 

glennevis

If you have a smartphone you could try installing Hildebrand's Bright app to view your energy usage.

You may find the historical gas usage data is there.

[Deleted User]

glennevis said:

If you have a smartphone you could try installing Hildebrand's Bright app to view your energy usage.

You may find the historical gas usage data is there.

Bright App connects via an Adapter to the DCC network. It will only be able to retrieve data if the WAN/HAN connections are working, and both meters are functioning.

macman

Forgive me a slight aside, but if I can get both gas and electricity data on Bright, but no gas data (electricity only) on the IHD, does that prove conclusively that I have a faulty IHD, rather than a faulty smart gas meter?
I have been unable to get any gas data on the IHD since smart meter installs, about two months ago, and Octopus are now saying that they are not able to replace the IHD, and that the error may be on the smart gas meter anyway. I have gone through several attempts by them to re-pair the gas meter with the IHD, but they do not seem to want to connect. 
I have now made a formal request for them to either replace the IHD, or fix the gas meter, whichever is required: I am awaiting a response.

jennifernil

We had a problem with the IHD from new only showing electricity use, yet the gas meter was sending out readings to our supplier.  Lasted 2 months but eventually after many complaints to supplier it suddenly started working.  No idea what they did to achieve that.

[Deleted User]

macman said:

Forgive me a slight aside, but if I can get both gas and electricity data on Bright, but no gas data (electricity only) on the IHD, does that prove conclusively that I have a faulty IHD, rather than a faulty smart gas meter?
I have been unable to get any gas data on the IHD since smart meter installs, about two months ago, and Octopus are now saying that they are not able to replace the IHD, and that the error may be on the smart gas meter anyway. I have gone through several attempts by them to re-pair the gas meter with the IHD, but they do not seem to want to connect. 
I have now made a formal request for them to either replace the IHD, or fix the gas meter, whichever is required: I am awaiting a response.

The IHD is just a display that connects to the comms hub via the HAN. Gas data used by the IHD comes from a gas proxy meter (a mirror) built into the comms hub. If Octopus and Bright are receiving both electricity and gas data then there is nothing wrong with the HAN or the WAN. The gas meter uses the HAN to connect to the comms hub, and the comms hub uses the WAN to connect to DCC network. There is no direct pairing between the gas meter and the IHD. I assume that all the LEDs on the comms hub are flashing normally?

jbuchanangb

It does not help anyone when everytime there is a news article about smart meters, the picture shows an In Home Device!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64364822

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64364195

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64331449

No wonder people come on this forum referring to IHDs as Smart Meters.

macman

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I meant between the gas proxy meter/comms hub and the IHD.  I was asked to reposition the IHD within a metre of the electricity meter for 48 hours, which has been done (3 times over now).Yes, all LEDS are flashing normally. 
The suggestion that it was a gas meter fault was only thrown up after the last remote pairing attempt failed; before that they said that if necessary they would supply a replacement IHD. Now they are backtracking on this and saying 'can you not just do without the gas data?', which of course makes me more determined to get it resolved.
I should add that the service from Octopus since i joined them has otherwise been exemplary, which is why i'm finding this attitude rather disappointing.

Vanguard11

I had smart meters [type 2] installed in 2019. Electricity meter works fine but the gas meter has never communicated in smart mode from the day it was installed. The day after installation we had a visit from the installers quality inspector to check the overall installation. I told him there was a problem with the gas meter. His immediate reply was "I don't need to look at it, I can tell that your gas meter is too far away from the electricity meter to communicate at the standard 2.4GHz frequency -you need a dual band gas meter which communicates at a lower frequency  of 868MHz. Unfortunately the dual band meters are still under development and you will have to wait until they are rolled out. "
Five years later I am still sending in manual gas readings and waiting for a new meter although I understand dual band meters are now available. 

My electricity meter is in the porch at the front door and my gas meter is outside the rear of the house which has thick stone walls so I can understand why communication fails at 2.4GHz. My first question is - Is there anybody out there in a similar situation who has had a dual band meter installed and does it communicate ok with the electricity meter?

The second question is how can I get this problem sorted? My current supplier [British Gas} refuses to do anything about it. Their final response was - "as you have a working meter we cannot replace it at present, we will reduce your next bill by £50 to compensate. "    

From conversations with other people it seems that my problem is quite a common one, but gets very little publicity. Offgem seems to be more interested in getting the suppliers to make new installations of smart meters rather than fixing the problems on existing installations. Also the energy companies get an effective subsidy for new installations and nothing for fixing problems so they have no incentive to do anything.  I would like to know how many other people have the same problem. I am sure I am not the only one.  Martin do you think it is worthwhile organising a petition or standard letter of complaint to Offgem to get the suppliers to give fixing existing installations equal priority with new installations?

Just as a footnote I have home WIFI for internet which works at 2.4GhZ [The same frequency as my gas meter is failing to communicate]. With the use of WIFI extenders I get good WIFI all over the property and even to a birdbox videocam in the garden 60 feet away. In my opinion this gas meter problem is easily solvable it just needs the energy suppliers and Offgem to give it more attention.